Capitalism vs Communism

[CiG]

I'm not really sure what your point is anymore in relation to what I've been saying. I might agree in part that the less developed a country is the less the rich create jobs, except that in lesser developed countries it's usually the rich who create jobs from the outside, for example western mining companies operating in Africa. Nike operating in Asia and so on.

I dunno, I just don't really understand what you're trying to say here. Dignity and survival? How does that relate to what I said about the employer having to take a risk when hiring someone for a good amount of money per hour and they have to choose between the experienced and the inexperienced? If the minimum wage is lower, the risk factor is also lower for the employer and therefore they might take a chance on more inexperienced people, I'm not saying anything about what the minimum wage exists for from the perspective of the employee.

 

[Allfader]

I'm not really sure what your point is anymore in relation to what I've been saying. I might agree in part that the less developed a country is the less the rich create jobs, except that in lesser developed countries it's usually the rich who create jobs from the outside, for example western mining companies operating in Africa. Nike operating in Asia and so on.

I dunno, I just don't really understand what you're trying to say here. Dignity and survival? How does that relate to what I said about the employer having to take a risk when hiring someone for a good amount of money per hour and they have to choose between the experienced and the inexperienced? If the minimum wage is lower, the risk factor is also lower for the employer and therefore they might take a chance on more inexperienced people, I'm not saying anything about what the minimum wage exists for from the perspective of the employee.

In countries with higher minimum wages, the employer has no option but to hire unexperienced people. There's no risk, it's just a constant in that especific economy that is asumed. It's also an employer's responsibility to provide proper training to its employees, in case its needed and it considers it necessary. For a number of jobs, employers don't really need people with extensive experience. I don't know any country with healthy economy and high minimum wages where unexperienced people struggles too much to get a job.

 

[CiG]

In countries with higher minimum wages, the employer has no option but to hire unexperienced people.

Why? Plenty of inexperienced people get turned down for a job. I myself turn down people with less experience over people with more because instead of being able to hire two people for $7 an hour, I instead have to choose the better less riskier person for $18, for a beginners wage. Why does the employer's choice become reduce when the country's minimum wage is higher?

There's no risk, it's just a constant in that especific economy that is asumed.

What?

It's also an employer's responsibility to provide proper training to its employees, in case its needed and it considers it necessary. For a number of jobs, employers don't really need people with extensive experience.

It saves the employer time and money if the person they hire already has this training. That's the point. Also we have to consider levels of education and years in the job market in general. All of these things are considered.

I don't know any country with healthy economy and high minimum wages where unexperienced people struggles too much to get a job.

Sure, at a dead-end take away job or something, and even then there's a shitload of competition.

 

[Allfader]

Why? Plenty of inexperienced people get turned down for a job. I myself turn down people with less experience over people with more because instead of being able to hire two people for $7 an hour, I instead have to choose the better less riskier person for $18, for a beginners wage. Why does the employer's choice become reduce when the country's minimum wage is higher?

That's not the general tendency. Many companies prefer to hire less experienced workers which mean less salary/cost paid.

This is of course related to the kind of job the unexperienced applicants go for, but there is this correlation of sorts: less experience/education/skills = jobs with less responsability = lower wages.

As general rule, CEO's/managers do their best to lower costs and get more profit. This is a very normal policy that is also reflected on salary planning.

It saves the employer time and money if the person they hire already has this training. That's the point. Also we have to consider levels of education and years in the job market in general. All of these things are considered.

Sure, at a dead-end take away job or something, and even then there's a shitload of competition.

It depends on the kind of job. For a CEO, you won't hire unexperienced people, that's a given. For invoice/documentation processing, an unexperienced prospect can learn the stuff fast and in this way the company saves a shitload of money.

It also depends on the health of a given economy. If a certain economy has the drive to create jobs in a constant way, then it's pretty hard to get too many people unemployed. Even if the offering of manpower is big, in a decent economy the demand for such force or labor is more or less equal. Any country with less than 7-8% of unemployment has more or less reached this balance. On economic terms, full employment is usually placed around 5-6% of unemployment.

 

[CiG]

That's not the general tendency. Many companies prefer to hire less experienced workers which mean less salary/cost paid.

This is of course related to the kind of job the unexperienced applicants go for, but there is this correlation of sorts: less experience/education/skills = jobs with less responsability = lower wages.

As general rule, CEO's/managers do their best to lower costs and get more profit. This is a very normal policy that is also reflected on salary planning.

Less salary/cost paid? That makes no sense in the context of a discussion about minimum wage. You're talking as if there is a totally free market where employers can offer very low starting wages to inexperienced workers. That's not the case if the minimum wage is $18 like it is here in Australia.

It depends on the kind of job. For a CEO, you won't hire unexperienced people, that's a given. For invoice/documentation processing, an unexperienced prospect can learn the stuff fast and in this way the company saves a shitload of money.

Again, no they don't if there is a high minimum wage and this has been the entire point of this discussion lmao. Hiring someone for $18 who already knows how to do X is more cost and time effective than hiring someone with no experience doing X.

 

[Allfader]

Someone far more experienced and more educated charges more than an unexperienced fella, no matter how high or low is the minimum wage. It also depends on the job if you can "risk" yourself to hire someone who can learn his job on site by paying the minimum ot if you want to pay more for someone "ready to go". The decisional factor is always economic and it'll depend on the salary gap between the freshman and the experienced applicant vs how much time you can give a guy to adapt/learn a certain job. If the gap is small and/or the timeframe for learning is tight, then hiring the experienced guy should be the right choice.

I've never been in Australia, but I do know other countries where people who just finished college has no issues getting hired, basically due the availability of low responsibility jobs that require basic knowledge to be done. Even people who doesn't really go to Uni can find jobs at operational level (construction, retail, etc).

In your case, the wage can stay like it is right now and apply a special tax % to the richest people to distribute wealth better, but it looks like your country doesn't need that too much.

There's another important difference to make when it comes to taxes: tax people or corporations: I've been talking mostly about people, with some very puntual exceptions in corporations due their guaranteed income and earnings. If you tax rich people, they can't successfully translate the loss of money via taxes to the consumers of goods and services from their enterprises. This is another important difference between communism and capitalism: the former heavily taxes the businesses and the latter is far less punishing to companies.

My idea is not to suffocate business, just take some wealth from the people who accumulates it while allowing companies to work under competitive economic conditions. Instead taxing Facebook heavily, I would tax Zuckerberg more, given that he can actually pay and leave Facebook operate under fair conditions.

 

[FEZZILLA]

Socialism was the most severely stupid idea anyone ever fell for. Its a sensation of words...mere words...words that never mean anything in practice.

 

[FEZZILLA]

If you prefer Socialism over Capitalism then you do not like money. You don't want to own anything nice. You don't want a raise. You simply don't want to live.

Socialism is out of control big government spending. This is your money they are spending. Your paychecks can be taxed anywhere from 50% to even 100% (favoring the higher percentage). You try and live even with 50% taken out of your taxes. You cannot live on peanuts. Plus the government will confiscate your private property...things of value belonging to you. Everything from land you own to your car to anything of value you own. Eventually the government runs out of your money and like Venezuela, your money sits in the streets because it has no value.

There is no incentive when you work for nothing. Its a depressing state because in a Socialist country you'll be working long hours for nothing. The government programs you'll be living on are worthless and they never last. I find it even hard to believe that in the year 2019 there are still people who believe Socialism is somehow a good thing.

Socialism also bans guns and speech. That is the recipe for tyranny.

 

[FEZZILLA]

Our economy should not depend on high wages or low wages but the right wages for the job position. You can find jobs that pay too low and have a high turnover because there is not enough incentive to stay. Jobs that pay the right wage for the job position will always have a low turnover and higher quality workers.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

Our economy should not depend on high wages or low wages but the right wages for the job position. You can find jobs that pay too low and have a high turnover because there is not enough incentive to stay. Jobs that pay the right wage for the job position will always have a low turnover and higher quality workers.

this post sounds like a government official making an excuse to avoid raising min wage up to a living wage

 

[FEZZILLA]

this post sounds like a government official making an excuse to avoid raising min wage up to a living wage

Look, if you raise minimum wage too high the economy will collapse. Fair wages and competitive wages works a whole lot better. Raising the minimum wage too high will kill small business owners.

Right now under the Trump administration is the best time to find a job, especially if you live in a conservative State. I plan on moving to a new location this summer. This means I need to find a new job in this new location I want to move to. I would have never considered something like this under Bush or Obama. Back then it was too risky to leave a job to move some place else. But now you can do this and make it happen. I'm sick of the big city life and want to move to this small village with a population of only 1500. But I need to find work in the area. So this requires me to leave an area where there are many jobs for a nice little village that looks like your Christmas post cards. But I will make it happen. I will land a new job in that area and still not have to commute very far to work and back. And the jobs I am looking at pay decent and aren't obsessed with 12 hour work days. But this move of mine is only possible under the Trump administration. Liberals hate Trump but we conservatives have a different and much better attitude about it. I mean, we're all getting rich off this guy and liberals want to complain. Yet I have never made the kind of money I make today during any other Presidency. Trump is keeping his promise and he's working hard to make us all rich. And that's exactly what he's doing. So stop complaining and enjoy the opportunities while the pickings are good. I was dirt poor during the entire Obama regime. Obama said Trump would never bring all those lost jobs back. Trump hasn't even finished his first term and Americans are returning back to work. By the end of his second term many of us will be wealthy. It pays to put America first instead of dead last like Democrats do.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

Look, if you raise minimum wage too high the economy will collapse. Fair wages and competitive wages works a whole lot better. Raising the minimum wage too high will kill small business owners.

Right now under the Trump administration is the best time to find a job, especially if you live in a conservative State. I plan on moving to a new location this summer. This means I need to find a new job in this new location I want to move to. I would have never considered something like this under Bush or Obama. Back then it was too risky to leave a job to move some place else. But now you can do this and make it happen. I'm sick of the big city life and want to move to this small village with a population of only 1500. But I need to find work in the area. So this requires me to leave an area where there are many jobs for a nice little village that looks like your Christmas post cards. But I will make it happen. I will land a new job in that area and still not have to commute very far to work and back. And the jobs I am looking at pay decent and aren't obsessed with 12 hour work days. But this move of mine is only possible under the Trump administration. Liberals hate Trump but we conservatives have a different and much better attitude about it. I mean, we're all getting rich off this guy and liberals want to complain. Yet I have never made the kind of money I make today during any other Presidency. Trump is keeping his promise and he's working hard to make us all rich. And that's exactly what he's doing. So stop complaining and enjoy the opportunities while the pickings are good. I was dirt poor during the entire Obama regime. Obama said Trump would never bring all those lost jobs back. Trump hasn't even finished his first term and Americans are returning back to work. By the end of his second term many of us will be wealthy. It pays to put America first instead of dead last like Democrats do.

uugghh
this whole post sounds like a Trump for 2020 commercial

 

[FEZZILLA]

uugghh
this whole post sounds like a Trump for 2020 commercial

Its the facts. Our economy is doing better than its done in decades --- no thanks to Obama who put America dead last!
Are you one of those people who hate Trump because the media told you to hate him? I don't let the media tell me what to think. If I let the media decide my vote then Trump would have lost for sure. But last election people were done with the media game and decided to not take their advice. We're all richer for not listening.

 

[CiG]

Blurry suffers from mild TDS.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

Its the facts. Our economy is doing better than its done in decades --- no thanks to Obama who put America dead last!
Are you one of those people who hate Trump because the media told you to hate him? I don't let the media tell me what to think. If I let the media decide my vote then Trump would have lost for sure. But last election people were done with the media game and decided to not take their advice. We're all richer for not listening.

i already hated Trump BEFORE he even decided to run for president, you dumbass

 

[FEZZILLA]

People who vote for Socialism will be the first ones to bitch when things get bad. Oh, indeed, that wonderful and glorious paradise of Venezuela that Democrats bragged about is now a place of suffering where their money is worthless and lays in the streets! Socialists are stupid people who are incapable of learning.

 

[FEZZILLA]

Socialism removes all human rights and re-introduces slavery. A Socialist government can tax you up to 100% if they want and there is nothing you can do about it. People who vote Democrat in 2020 will be the sorriest bunch of losers in the whole of human history if a Democrat actually does win. But most Americans want to keep their earnings and don't want to work as slaves for a corrupt and evil government run by demented Satanists.

 

[Vandert]

Very interesting topic!

 

[komeye]

That's not the general tendency. Many companies prefer to hire less experienced workers which mean less salary/cost paid.

This is of course related to the kind of job the unexperienced applicants go for, but there is this correlation of sorts: less experience/education/skills = jobs with less responsability = lower wages.

As general rule, CEO's/managers do their best to lower costs and get more profit. This is a very normal policy that is also reflected on salary planning.



It depends on the kind of job. For a CEO, you won't hire unexperienced people, that's a given. For invoice/documentation processing, an unexperienced prospect can learn the stuff fast and in this way the company saves a shitload of money.

It also depends on the health of a given economy. If a certain economy has the drive to create jobs in a constant way, then it's pretty hard to get too many people unemployed. Even if the offering of manpower is big, in a decent economy the demand for such force or labor is more or less equal. Any country with less than 7-8% of unemployment has more or less reached this balance. On economic terms, full employment is usually placed around 5-6% of unemployment.

Now the process of finding a job and employment will be even more difficult. The pandemic coronavirus has closed the business for quarantine. Many companies have been deprived of income and are already declaring bankruptcy, reduction, etc.
Unemployment statistics are rising

 

[Allfader]

Gringos don't have the slightest idea what socialism is. US' entire history has been right winged. Even Dems are considered right wing everywhere in the world.

If you wanna know what a well implemented "market" socialism is, look up the Scandinavian countries.

Oh, and Trump must be put down, fast.