Capitalism vs Communism

[CiG]

Where do you live?

Also, attributing roads to socialism is an old trope that needs to die already. Even animals build roads by traveling the same paths over and over until it is compact and hardened.

 

[arg]

The example of the USSR is completely equivocal. The Soviet Union failed miserably as a socialist political system. The lowest levels of society were given wealth and land, but these concessions were granted at the expense of the more successful landowners. Wealthier farmers and agriculturalists were divested of their land and property, arrested, and imprisoned. The poorest members of society were taken care of, while those who carried the actual economic burden of the country were neglected and intentionally harmed.

Furthermore, those in power kept most of the wealth for themselves, and there was no "equal distribution of funds" between them and the poor. Basically, the USSR is historical proof that communist/socialist political systems provide a pathway to totalitarian states, as F.A. Hayek asserts in The Road to Serfdom. I believe that states of such enormous size and power cannot exist as successful collectivist powers. They inevitably tend towards totalitarianism.

WOW i can't believe Einherjar said this once upon a time

 

[Einherjar86]

We all have to grow up someday.

I actually still believe that, but I'd adjust my language. For instance, I wouldn't say that the USSR is historical "proof" of anything; but it's certainly strong evidence against socialist centralization.

 

[CiG]

Good quote.

 

[arg]

a Bernie-state if it ever happened would be a pathway to totalitarianism according to Ein 2009, seems like a pretty smart guy

 

[CiG]

If he still agrees with that but also sees through the current Trump trite then yes, he is indeed.

 

[PrincessHades]

a Bernie-state if it ever happened would be a pathway to totalitarianism according to Ein 2009, seems like a pretty smart guy

Bernie's espoused policies and views were mostly great (he wasn't nationalist enough for my tastes, but he would do justice to the economy and social laws). However, I wouldn't trust him to actually carry out these things. He is Better than Trump and Hillary combined, though.

 

[arg]

Bernie's espoused policies and views were mostly great (he wasn't nationalist enough for my tastes, but he would do justice to the economy and social laws). However, I wouldn't trust him to actually carry out these things. He is Better than Trump and Hillary combined, though.

Income tax in Sweden, Bernie's utopia, ranges from 31-57%. That's how much they need to tax to provide free healthcare and college and huge welfare benefits. How much would Americans need to be taxed to do the same, with our much bigger population, that is much less healthy and has more poor people? Not gonna happen!

 

[PrincessHades]

Income tax in Sweden, Bernie's utopia, ranges from 31-57%. That's how much they need to tax to provide free healthcare and college and huge welfare benefits. How much would Americans need to be taxed to do the same, with our much bigger population, that is much less healthy and has more poor people? Not gonna happen!

I like the idea of a flat income tax, at a rate around 30%. Business taxes should be slightly higher, and should further increase based on profits. Certain businesses (banks and insurance companies) for example should be taken over by the government. Other huge corporations who meet certain statistics should be subject to a raised tax as well.

Banks and insurance companies are practitioners of legalized crime. They have manipulated the law into creating loopholes for them with their money. Fucking sick.

 

[arg]

Yeah fuck insurance, I say do away with all forms of insurance and have everyone pay out of pocket for everything that happens to them (no joke).

 

[CiG]

Pair of retards.

 

[PrincessHades]

Yeah fuck insurance, I say do away with all forms of insurance and have everyone pay out of pocket for everything that happens to them (no joke).

The economy would actually adapt to such a policy, however it would take a long time and cause a lot of destruction in the process. I think that insurance should be done away with in favor of a socialised healthcare system. Banks need to be fucking shoved off of the face of this planet. The same goes for large corporations like Walmart. They attract scum, too.

 

[arg]

The economy would actually adapt to such a policy, however it would take a long time and cause a lot of destruction in the process. I think that insurance should be done away with in favor of a socialised healthcare system. Banks need to be fucking shoved off of the face of this planet. The same goes for large corporations like Walmart. They attract scum, too.

- get both the government and insurance companies out of healthcare,
- have patients only deal directly with doctors and hospitals
- introduce more competition; make it easier to become a doctor/nurse/surgeon so they will fight for our business by lowering their costs
- cut down on regulations, licenses, standards, processes, paperwork, administrative shit
- allow the importation of medicine from all over the world,
- reduce the amount of time it takes for a medicine to be allowed to be duplicated
- remove the requirement to help everybody regardless of ability to pay (allow healthcare providers to deny service)

if we implemented all of the above, healthcare costs would go down by themselves. a lot of the extremely poor will die, and medical accidents / malpractice deaths will increase (temporarily, until people figure out who are the bad doctors, spread the word and put them out of business), but healthcare will become a lot more affordable for those who have some money, even lower-middle / upper-poor class folks

and private charities of extremely rich lefties, as well as gofundme pages will still exist btw

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

- get both the government and insurance companies out of healthcare,
- have patients only deal directly with doctors and hospitals
- introduce more competition; make it easier to become a doctor/nurse/surgeon so they will fight for our business by lowering their costs
- cut down on regulations, licenses, standards, processes, paperwork, administrative shit
- allow the importation of medicine from all over the world,
- reduce the amount of time it takes for a medicine to be allowed to be duplicated
- remove the requirement to help everybody regardless of ability to pay (allow healthcare providers to deny service)

if we implemented all of the above, healthcare costs would go down by themselves. a lot of the extremely poor will die, and medical accidents / malpractice deaths will increase (temporarily, until people figure out who are the bad doctors, spread the word and put them out of business), but healthcare will become a lot more affordable for those who have some money, even lower-middle / upper-poor class folks

and private charities of extremely rich lefties, as well as gofundme pages will still exist btw

none of this will really be able to happen until going to med-school is completely free

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

WOW i can't believe EinherCommnunist said this once upon a time

yeah, and then we went to school and got "educated".

 

[FEZZILLA]

Communism is completely stupid. People who follow communism have to force themselves to look past all the millions of people slaughter by communists. Communism, like Islam, is a complete system of misery.

I'm friends with a Russian who lived in the USSR. He was a high ranked Special Forces Spetsnaz who fought in Afghanistan during the Russian-Afghan war. As a professional soldier he could not bear losing that war. He was the 2nd to the last person to leave Afghanistan followed only by his commander. After the fall of the USSR, he decided to move to America to make better life for himself. He fell in love with America and even joined the Army Rangers, only to find himself back in Afghanistan once again---and, once again, fighting a losing war which he says is lost. This, of course, is hard on him losing twice: once as a Russian Spetsnaz and then as a U.S Army Ranger. He also trained U.S and Iraqi troops in Iraq. While this man's career as a professional soldier is nothing short of Rambo, he ended up moving out of the U.S to live in Indonesia for a time and now lives in Israel.
His heart is still here with America but he sees something happening here which is far too hard for him to handle. He sees America turning into the former USSR and now warns Americans to stop voting for progressives if they want to continue living in a free and prosperous nation. I've seen liberals try and argue with him but they all walk away wiser since liberals simply do not understand communism like a Russian who lived it does. He warns everyone not to give in to the Democrat madness every day because if we do empower them again...well, say goodbye to freedom and hello to brutal tyranny and poverty.

Capitalism is a system that rewards hard work. Here in America, you can chose your career and set out to achieve your own dreams, no matter how simple or glorious those dreams may be. Sure, you may fail trying to capture those dreams as well. But in communism, everyone is equally worthless; they are equal to animals but expected to work like machines.

 

[Allfader]

The appeal of communism is extremely simple: it's "fair" to everyone. People who doesn't know how the modern (and not that modern) world works, thinks it's easy to implement an economic system where everyone gets what is "human" to get. The problem with communism is also simple: it's impossible to put in practice because it's absurd. The whole premise of "value" is very wrong and now totally obsolete. The "disctatorship of the proletariat" thing is horrible and it should be banned from any political party. Communist leaders are always tyrants/dictators that refuse to relinquish power (the 3rd and final stage of "true" communism). At the end, communism works as propaganda for the idealist, more than anything else.

Capitalism is not short of faults either, but it kinda works FOR NOW. It has, in my view, 2 major problems, not small ones: Lack of proper regulation due the money's power/weakness on people in charge that gets corrupt, making resource managing with flawed results and the need of constant consume increase, which leads to natural resources draining. It will reach a point where the whole world will collapse. Capitalism might be sustainable only if rich people were less greedy/money hungry and used some of their wealth to properly to renew the natural resources at higher speeds/better ways. Environmental care is crucial.

Still, there is the population problem. As long as population keeps increasing, the more we are all doomed.

 

[CiG]

Problem I see with your analysis of capitalism is that it doesn't take into account technological advances that counter resource drain. Malthusian predictions like this have been happening for decades. According to several historical predictions we should have all starved to death by now.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

so why can't America solve it's problems by copying the countries that already solved these specific problems??
why can't we get "identical medical treatment for identical injuries regardless of an individual's ability to pay"?? why can't we implement caps on how much medical bills cost?? how come we can't get "free college" using the same method that other countries are already doing it?? why can't we put caps on how much cosmetic surgeons are allowed to make?? why can't we raise min wage up to a living wage?? why can't we have "low income apartments" in the same apt complex as higher priced apts?? why can't we tax the shit out of the riches 10 percent?? why can't we put a mandatory-minimum on the number of miles-per-gallon a car has to get in order to be street legal?? why the fuck do we have non-anorexic people starving-to-death in the specific country that manufactures enough food to feed every human on the planet?? why can't turn abandon buildings into low income housing?? why can't we put caps on the costs of car-payments, car-insurance-payments, gasoline, mortgages, apt rents?? why can't we increase min wage and reduce cost-of-living enough to prevent us from drowning in CC debt??

 

[Allfader]

Problem I see with your analysis of capitalism is that it doesn't take into account technological advances that counter resource drain. Malthusian predictions like this have been happening for decades. According to several historical predictions we should have all starved to death by now.

Natural resources develop at a slower pace than human consumption of them. Think about wood, for example. We have sent to extinction way too many species and destroyed way too many ecosystems to recover from that in the close/mid term. Climate change is also a real threat. Water will be a huge problem in the next century. Earth temperature WILL rise and with that, snow will melt, oceans will rise, water will evaporate, rain won't replenish rivers and lakes enough to sustain life, edible water won't be enough for everyone.

And as I said, the enterprises and governments that should be doing something about all this don't care. Immediate profit at the lowest cost for them is still the capitalist motto; if that doesn't change, the planet and us won't be able to do anything to prevent our potential exinction.

so why can't America solve it's problems by copying the countries that already solved these specific problems??
why can't we get "identical medical treatment for identical injuries regardless of an individual's ability to pay"?? why can't we implement caps on how much medical bills cost?? how come we can't get "free college" using the same method that other countries are already doing it?? why can't we put caps on how much cosmetic surgeons are allowed to make?? why can't we raise min wage up to a living wage?? why can't we have "low income apartments" in the same apt complex as higher priced apts?? why can't we tax the shit out of the riches 10 percent?? why can't we put a mandatory-minimum on the number of miles-per-gallon a car has to get in order to be street legal?? why the fuck do we have non-anorexic people starving-to-death in the specific country that manufactures enough food to feed every human on the planet?? why can't turn abandon buildings into low income housing?? why can't we put caps on the costs of car-payments, car-insurance-payments, gasoline, mortgages, apt rents?? why can't we increase min wage and reduce cost-of-living enough to prevent us from drowning in CC debt??

Profit. With the wealth all those companies and governments have, they could have solved many of the modern troubles common people face everyday, but they won't do it unless they can profit of it.