Census Report Thread
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Matt
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Dakryn I have to correct you on some of your historical interpretations. Slave owners were a relatively small percentage of American populace (especially when you include the North) but cash crops grown by slaves on plantations were hugely important to the Southern economy. So important that industrialization was well behind the North by the Civil War. Also, slave owners had the support of a great number of poor whites because of racial fears. This means that despite slave owners being a small percentage of the population, the society was heavily dependent on slavery and deeply racially divided.
You say that the slave economy was destroyed by the Civil War/Reconstruction which is not technically wrong, but it doesn't mean what you think. After Reconstruction ended free blacks worked almost entirely as share-croppers and debt-peons. Better than being slaves of course, but still totally marginalized.
Whoever said that industrialization happened on the backs of European immigrants is also technically right, but that was only because blacks were not allowed to work in Northern factories until WWI.
Finally Dakryn I'd like to ask that you stop saying "entitlement". This isn't 1980 and Ronald Reagan is not running for president.
You say that the slave economy was destroyed by the Civil War/Reconstruction which is not technically wrong, but it doesn't mean what you think. After Reconstruction ended free blacks worked almost entirely as share-croppers and debt-peons. Better than being slaves of course, but still totally marginalized.
Whoever said that industrialization happened on the backs of European immigrants is also technically right, but that was only because blacks were not allowed to work in Northern factories until WWI.
Finally Dakryn I'd like to ask that you stop saying "entitlement". This isn't 1980 and Ronald Reagan is not running for president.
, anyone seen the Boondocks with Reagan in white heaven?
Dak
mentat
This is true, but doesn't change either of my original points, it also fails to point out that racism was almost just as bad in the North, as evidenced by the difficulty migrating and fleeing blacks found when they got into the northern states.
I would like to point out that post reconstruction, plenty of poor whites were in the same boat, especially in Deep South states.
This is a case where the "why" only matters in again pointing out the racism in the North as well. Even Lincoln said he only freed the slaves (and only in the South) because he needed it as a "righteous cause" and he would not have done it if he hadn't needed to. It's the same reason the federal military propaganda machine is cranking out as much as possible against Radical Islam to try a give this bullshit War on Terror a "righteous cause" (democracy).
It may not be 1980 and I wouldn't vote for Reagan anyway, but the entitlement mindset is strong as ever.
Edit: I'll reply to Pessimism soon as I can.
Actually, some were basically re-enslaved through one of the more hilariously evil things I've ever heard of, basically they (the whites) made it illegal to be homeless, which the blacks all were at this point, and then arrested them and contracted them out to plantations. I feel like that's even more incredibly wrong than slavery was in the first place.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Do you have a link for this information? I realize that blacks were basically re-enslaved after the war (although no one called it slavery), but I was under the impression it was due to the inability of freedmen to make a decent living on their own. They had no property and no capital, and because southern white landowners had most of the tools necessary to agriculture they had little opportunity. Therefore, because they could make no living, many returned to the plantation owners (of their own volition, although not willingly, if that makes sense) and worked mostly for unfathomably low wages. I've never heard of this "illegal to be homeless" law, unless it was something enacted by the South during Reconstruction. I know the South tried to impose some restrictions on blacks that were thrown out pretty quickly.
If you think about it suddenly you have this huge population you just "freed"... so now what ? I've seen documentaries on this period and it was a real frigin mess and who couldnt have seen it comming. Of course they were not wanted in the north, common northerns had enough of their own economic and employment problems to worry about and why there has always been objections to immigration as well. It doesnt take much to understand this territorial stuff, its innate in every living breathing mammal.
Seems it would have been better if the government would have cracked down on treatment of workers, houseing and wages... but there you go... big government.
We really cant understand or speak with much understanding of those times. Life was hard, everyone was mistreated, kids had to work and I mean work not stand at a cash register looking dumb. A womans day while it may have been at home was a hard day, all men were mistreated and underpaid at work. Sorry I have a real hard time feeling sorry for slaves, much has been dramatized about it while the hard life of the settlers has been glorified.
We know nothing of those times and the hard life... nothing
Seems it would have been better if the government would have cracked down on treatment of workers, houseing and wages... but there you go... big government.
We really cant understand or speak with much understanding of those times. Life was hard, everyone was mistreated, kids had to work and I mean work not stand at a cash register looking dumb. A womans day while it may have been at home was a hard day, all men were mistreated and underpaid at work. Sorry I have a real hard time feeling sorry for slaves, much has been dramatized about it while the hard life of the settlers has been glorified.
We know nothing of those times and the hard life... nothing
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Einherjar86
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The Black Codes are what I was referring to when I said "something enacted by the South during Reconstruction." And they didn't last one year, if I'm correct.
Vitor
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Matt
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Fine, but then you had things like Jim Crow laws and countless other variants of such.
Episteme
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Einherjar86
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Mathiäs;8984141 said:
I'm not arguing against the fact that racism existed after the war, I was just uncertain about that "homeless" law; which, it appears, actually did exist, although not for long.
Also, if I've ever made it seem like I don't think racism is still a major problem in today's society, I apologize and would like to clarify that I still believe it exists. I personally feel that the economic results of racism are a much bigger problem than racism itself; but I do recognize that racist tendencies still exist, as demonstrated by some of the recent outbursts from the patriotic Tea Party movement.
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