Cooking
- Thread starter Morgan C
- Start date
If you had paid better attention to what I said, the little issue of 'this is getting in the way of *real issues that we know about*' would be a little more present - add that to the fact that with standards as low as yours *anything* is a possible cause for cancer and we're already at strike two.
I don't doubt that you have good intentions, but if you don't dig a little deeper than paranoid chain letter rubbish like that then you simply *can't do anything ever* without getting cancer. You'll also be more likely to miss *real, proven* health issues instead of jumping to this nonsense.
The fact that you're now attacking me (and accusing me of not reading your post... which I now wish were the case) instead of actually touching the real issue that I was trying to bring up doesn't really help anything. If you can't back information up more seriously than 'here's a list of things I found somewhere', you're not helping anyone at all and you could be harmfully misleading - but now I'm the bad guy, and apparently all in favor of giving everyone cancer by forcing microwave use? (Be a little more careful if you're going to accuse people of not reading your post... especially when it comes to reading theirs.) This isn't about me thinking that you're an idiot - which, before now, was not the case - but about you being too gullible and unwilling to dig deeper to be any more useful than the people who would blindly microwave themselves into tumorland.
Jeff
I don't doubt that you have good intentions, but if you don't dig a little deeper than paranoid chain letter rubbish like that then you simply *can't do anything ever* without getting cancer. You'll also be more likely to miss *real, proven* health issues instead of jumping to this nonsense.
The fact that you're now attacking me (and accusing me of not reading your post... which I now wish were the case) instead of actually touching the real issue that I was trying to bring up doesn't really help anything. If you can't back information up more seriously than 'here's a list of things I found somewhere', you're not helping anyone at all and you could be harmfully misleading - but now I'm the bad guy, and apparently all in favor of giving everyone cancer by forcing microwave use? (Be a little more careful if you're going to accuse people of not reading your post... especially when it comes to reading theirs.) This isn't about me thinking that you're an idiot - which, before now, was not the case - but about you being too gullible and unwilling to dig deeper to be any more useful than the people who would blindly microwave themselves into tumorland.
Jeff
JayB
Member
Ugh.
I am not gullible. If you had just said in the beginning, "Hey Jay , that info you posted , I'm not 100% sure about that , and here is my opinion" instead of "Hey Jay you are spreading bullshit info purposefully to induce fear on the population and you are an idiot" then I would have had no problem with you. If you have some valid links that show studies conducted that have proven for a fact that there is no correlation between microwaves and cancer , I would love to see them , and not just so we can fight about it some more. I would love for that to be true because that's one less thing for everyone to worry about. So far you haven't shown me any real proof that I am wrong , and quite honestly until the day that people stop dying of cancer while continuing to use microwaves , I will not rule out this possibility. Now I am not attacking you good sir , just defending my position. No one likes to be called an idiot and flamed to death for trying to help out.
I am not gullible. If you had just said in the beginning, "Hey Jay , that info you posted , I'm not 100% sure about that , and here is my opinion" instead of "Hey Jay you are spreading bullshit info purposefully to induce fear on the population and you are an idiot" then I would have had no problem with you. If you have some valid links that show studies conducted that have proven for a fact that there is no correlation between microwaves and cancer , I would love to see them , and not just so we can fight about it some more. I would love for that to be true because that's one less thing for everyone to worry about. So far you haven't shown me any real proof that I am wrong , and quite honestly until the day that people stop dying of cancer while continuing to use microwaves , I will not rule out this possibility. Now I am not attacking you good sir , just defending my position. No one likes to be called an idiot and flamed to death for trying to help out.
... which is why the reasoning for an otherwise unknown Soviet technology ban (an unprecedented event, not to mention one that was mimicked by the rest of the modern world as their science was never faulty in any way) and the fact that we call microwaving 'nuking' were enough to shut off your critical responses almost entirely on this matter.
If I had said the second thing, you might have had good reason to have a problem with me, but at this point it looks like you're misreading for your own convenience and have missed the part where I didn't have any negative opinion of you at all before this.
If this were possible, we might have somewhere to go... but it looks like you've missed more than a few essential parts of how science works. At this point, you've shown no reason to believe that they can actually cause cancer (and the burden of proof here is on you, especially since the usual methods by which cancer is helped along - like screwing around with DNA to bring about odd cell reproduction - aren't present here) and if we allowed all 'evidence' as weak as what you presented then the claim 'This could cause cancer' would be meaningless from overuse and nobody would know what actually caused cancer.
You've made this an actual concern, now... do you think that I *want* everything to cause, or everyone to get, or every nice thing linked somehow to cancer?
I don't even HAVE a damned microwave! This is about you needing to hold your sources to higher standards BEFORE people question you!
Again, I don't need to show that you're wrong because *you're the one making a claim involving a previously-not-seriously-taken link between cancer and microwaves*.
Finally, I didn't call you an idiot before you started attacking me - and even then I only did so indirectly, leaving open the possibility that I'm not getting a good view of you and you only seem like an idiot in specific situations like these, because I am that damn charitable. I do certainly think that you need to rethink your willingness to repost random lists on the internet and figure out how science works a teensy bit better, but as far I'm concerned the mark of an idiot is not believing unusual things but in responding to their criticism in ways that don't help establish their truth - and I'll probably like you once your responses and standards improve.
Jeff
JayB
Member
Alright JBroll , I concede here , I am way too fucking tired to keep this up right now. I don't own a microwave either. The only reason I got pissed at you is when you said I deserve to be called an idiot , which is just a thinly veiled way of outrightly calling me an idiot. My final argument here tonight is when people use microwaves , they are 90% of the time cooking microwaveable foods , which are processed to hell and back and filled with garbage cancer causing preservatives and chemicals. If you want to argue THAT fact with me I will be happy to indirectly call you an idiot.
I also say that some people should be shot for various things, and that doesn't make me a murderer (unless my lawyer is *really* dusty on a few things) - what's more important was the clarification of why you would have been called an idiot (which was, in fact, your own phrase) and what needs to be fixed.
I'm certainly not going to argue your final argument - from the beginning I had said that they had their uses, not that getting cheap medical waste and tossing it in the box was a good idea. If you know how they work and how to take advantage of their quirks, they are still handy tools (and they're definitely not the most likely cancer link in your kitchen right now), but I don't even care that much about microwaves compared to the dangers of scientific illiteracy and unverified cancer claims.
Jeff
I'm certainly not going to argue your final argument - from the beginning I had said that they had their uses, not that getting cheap medical waste and tossing it in the box was a good idea. If you know how they work and how to take advantage of their quirks, they are still handy tools (and they're definitely not the most likely cancer link in your kitchen right now), but I don't even care that much about microwaves compared to the dangers of scientific illiteracy and unverified cancer claims.
Jeff
Ok, now that you guys are done, lets try and get this back thread back on track (as amusing as this tangent was..). Microwaves or not, there's no processed stuff here, just real healthy food and some good recipes.
Torniojaws
They call me Juha
Around here, low carb doesn't mean non-dairy (although cow milk is not recommended, but for a whole different reason). But as for the diet, it's just as it says: low carbohydrate
The macronutritions in real butter are *drumroll*0 grams of protein
0 grams of carbohydrates
80 grams of fat
Pretty much as low-carb (or truly, no-carb
) as it gets Oh and there's many ways to do carb dieting:
No carb: this is not healthy in the long term - only for a quick 2-4 week run generally
Ketosis aka Atkins induction: you limit the carbs generally to <25 g per day, and this one is slightly more healthy than no carb, with most of the same effect, but still you should only do this for 6 months max
Low carb: this is a lifetime diet, and is the main point of the whole way of eating low carb. Generally you keep the carbs at a custom level based on where your weight drop stops after adding 5 grams of carbs every week once you have stopped the ketosis phase, eg. ketosis = 20 g, week 1 after = 25 g, week 2 = 30 g, week 3 = 35 g, until your weight drops no more, and then you stay at that amount of carbs.
Good carb: this is more lenient towards carb foods, as long as the GI (Glygemic Index) is low, for example dark pasta instead of white pasta.
The main bans in any low carb style diet are:
- milk (not dairy as a whole, for example cheese is an important source of calcium and good fat in low carb diet)
- wheat flour based foods
- processed fats (margarine), and non-natural fats in general (processed vegetable oils in particular)
- transfats
- highly polyunsaturated fats (due to their behaviour when cooked)
- potatos (during human digestion, it becomes almost pure sugar! One of the reasons for extremely high levels of type II (adult age) diabetes cases in Finland)
- rice (also a big source of easy energy and lots of carbs, and why Asian people stay healthy despite eating this, is because the amounts per dish are generally very small)
And of course, foods that contain a lot of carbohydrates
Around here, low carb doesn't mean non-dairy (although cow milk is not recommended, but for a whole different reason). But as for the diet, it's just as it says: low carbohydrate
0 grams of protein
0 grams of carbohydrates
80 grams of fat
Pretty much as low-carb (or truly, no-carb
Oh and there's many ways to do carb dieting:
No carb: this is not healthy in the long term - only for a quick 2-4 week run generally
Ketosis aka Atkins induction: you limit the carbs generally to <25 g per day, and this one is slightly more healthy than no carb, with most of the same effect, but still you should only do this for 6 months max
Low carb: this is a lifetime diet, and is the main point of the whole way of eating low carb. Generally you keep the carbs at a custom level based on where your weight drop stops after adding 5 grams of carbs every week once you have stopped the ketosis phase, eg. ketosis = 20 g, week 1 after = 25 g, week 2 = 30 g, week 3 = 35 g, until your weight drops no more, and then you stay at that amount of carbs.
Good carb: this is more lenient towards carb foods, as long as the GI (Glygemic Index) is low, for example dark pasta instead of white pasta.
The main bans in any low carb style diet are:
- milk (not dairy as a whole, for example cheese is an important source of calcium and good fat in low carb diet)
- wheat flour based foods
- processed fats (margarine), and non-natural fats in general (processed vegetable oils in particular)
- transfats
- highly polyunsaturated fats (due to their behaviour when cooked)
- potatos (during human digestion, it becomes almost pure sugar! One of the reasons for extremely high levels of type II (adult age) diabetes cases in Finland)
And of course, foods that contain a lot of carbohydrates
I understand this - the main reason for no dairy/processed carbs is to clear up my acne/rosacaea (the former I've had on and off for 5 or so years, the latter for at least 10 or so years) first, and for health reasons second. So dairy is something that I cannot have, and I simply cannot eat well whilst cutting out both dairy AND carbs. Dairy contains a bunch of hormones that mess with you, and processed carbs spike your insulin which is also bad. Un/low-processed carbs still do, but to a lesser extent. I'm probably slightly mis-informed on these, but the practical results of my clearing skin are more relevant to me than scientific studies.
In any case I don't think a keto diet would be more healthy than a diet with only lowGI carbs. I realise cavemen didn't eat bread and pasta, and that we didn't evolve eating a high amount of carbs, but we did manage to evolve with a sun/giant-microwave-in-the-sky that causes cancer, so I don't think going by what people ate in an age when they were lucky to live to 30 is a great idea. Not meaning to attack your dieting choices or re-derail this thread though.
JMarz
New Metal Member
Around here, low carb doesn't mean non-dairy (although cow milk is not recommended, but for a whole different reason). But as for the diet, it's just as it says: low carbohydrate
0 grams of protein
0 grams of carbohydrates
80 grams of fat
Pretty much as low-carb (or truly, no-carb
Oh and there's many ways to do carb dieting:
No carb: this is not healthy in the long term - only for a quick 2-4 week run generally
Ketosis aka Atkins induction: you limit the carbs generally to <25 g per day, and this one is slightly more healthy than no carb, with most of the same effect, but still you should only do this for 6 months max
Low carb: this is a lifetime diet, and is the main point of the whole way of eating low carb. Generally you keep the carbs at a custom level based on where your weight drop stops after adding 5 grams of carbs every week once you have stopped the ketosis phase, eg. ketosis = 20 g, week 1 after = 25 g, week 2 = 30 g, week 3 = 35 g, until your weight drops no more, and then you stay at that amount of carbs.
Good carb: this is more lenient towards carb foods, as long as the GI (Glygemic Index) is low, for example dark pasta instead of white pasta.
The main bans in any low carb style diet are:
- milk (not dairy as a whole, for example cheese is an important source of calcium and good fat in low carb diet)
- wheat flour based foods
- processed fats (margarine), and non-natural fats in general (processed vegetable oils in particular)
- transfats
- highly polyunsaturated fats (due to their behaviour when cooked)
- potatos (during human digestion, it becomes almost pure sugar! One of the reasons for extremely high levels of type II (adult age) diabetes cases in Finland)
- rice (also a big source of easy energy and lots of carbs, and why Asian people stay healthy despite eating this, is because the amounts per dish are generally very small)
And of course, foods that contain a lot of carbohydrates
Can you please come cook for me?
You seem to know your shit.
Torniojaws
They call me Juha
Their age "limit" was due to the awful hygiene, sanitation, medicine, and housing qualities though
Mostly the medicine/hospitals, I think. Modern medicine is very very young. What is just an average injury or disease nowadays meant an almost certain death or greatly reduced lifespan just 150 years ago. Some nowadays curable illnesses were still lethal 70 years ago.
JayB
Member
Ok Jbroll , you have some good points. Sorry if I seemed to jump down your throat last night , I wasn't in a great mood and it seemed like you were attacking for no reason but now I can more clearly see the validity of your statements. I guess we'll just agree that microwaves aren't the best thing ever , but they won't make you spontaneously combust either lol.
amarshism
Member
Ok. Eggs and vetoes it is.
Eggs are a great source of protein and vitamins essential for developing muscle. I know you said you can't/won't eat milk but I'll include it anyways in small amounts. Either way, when letting down eggs, you can substitute water.
Take some vegies and your standard 28cm pan. Fry off some of your fave vegies like leek, zuchini, mushrooms until coloured. Season well with salt and pepper. It's important to season correctly and to taste. Alot of people are afraid to add salt when dieting/eating well/whatever you want to call it, buy remember, it's far better than shitty lean cuisines packed with 1200mg of sodium.
Whisk up 4-6eggs depending on size and let down with about 1/2 cup of milk, or if you're dead set against it, water. Pour over the vegies and stir, for 30 secs. Allow bottom to cook for a few minutes then place into an oven at 200c for 5-10 mins until set. Ta da, simple frittata. Quite cheap, will give you 6 servings as well.
Use organic eggs.
Buy organic unhomogenised milk.
Eat more meals a day and incorporate a resistance training program. It is an essential part of any healthy wait loss, or lean gaining program. It's also good for your general health and skin, esp if you've been living a fairly sedentary life.
Avoid eating copious amounts of fruit and naturally sugary foods after mid afternoon and shift to more protein based meals. You say you're concerned about hormones in food so I hope you're buying organic meats and vegetables and the hormones used to stimulate growth in the food is not the best for you.
Lamb.
Get a nice backstrap, rocket, eggplant and zuchini.
Get your zuchini and peel down one side with a vegetable peeler to make ribbons out of it. Slice your eggplant into discs and salt to dram out the bitterness. It will take about half an hour. Season lamb with salt and pepper and place into a hot pan
with olive oil. Colour well for about 2 mins and then turn. Depending on thickness place into a 200c oven for 3-5mins for rare-medium rare. Pull out, remove lamb and cover with foil to rest. Colour eggplant in pan, then add zuchini ribbons for thirty seconds. Now your lamb is rested, slice across the grain diagonally. Mix with your veg and rocket and drizzle with olive oil and/or balsamic and you have a sexy little salad. If you're feeling dairy inclined add some crumbled Persian fetta or chevre.
Eat alot of tuna and rice! Try and incorporate five meals a day with about 120-150gms of protein and 100 of clean carbs in avg, tapering your carb intake off towards the end of the day.
Have you had a course of roacutane (sp?).
Eggs are a great source of protein and vitamins essential for developing muscle. I know you said you can't/won't eat milk but I'll include it anyways in small amounts. Either way, when letting down eggs, you can substitute water.
Take some vegies and your standard 28cm pan. Fry off some of your fave vegies like leek, zuchini, mushrooms until coloured. Season well with salt and pepper. It's important to season correctly and to taste. Alot of people are afraid to add salt when dieting/eating well/whatever you want to call it, buy remember, it's far better than shitty lean cuisines packed with 1200mg of sodium.
Whisk up 4-6eggs depending on size and let down with about 1/2 cup of milk, or if you're dead set against it, water. Pour over the vegies and stir, for 30 secs. Allow bottom to cook for a few minutes then place into an oven at 200c for 5-10 mins until set. Ta da, simple frittata. Quite cheap, will give you 6 servings as well.
Use organic eggs.
Buy organic unhomogenised milk.
Eat more meals a day and incorporate a resistance training program. It is an essential part of any healthy wait loss, or lean gaining program. It's also good for your general health and skin, esp if you've been living a fairly sedentary life.
Avoid eating copious amounts of fruit and naturally sugary foods after mid afternoon and shift to more protein based meals. You say you're concerned about hormones in food so I hope you're buying organic meats and vegetables and the hormones used to stimulate growth in the food is not the best for you.
Lamb.
Get a nice backstrap, rocket, eggplant and zuchini.
Get your zuchini and peel down one side with a vegetable peeler to make ribbons out of it. Slice your eggplant into discs and salt to dram out the bitterness. It will take about half an hour. Season lamb with salt and pepper and place into a hot pan
with olive oil. Colour well for about 2 mins and then turn. Depending on thickness place into a 200c oven for 3-5mins for rare-medium rare. Pull out, remove lamb and cover with foil to rest. Colour eggplant in pan, then add zuchini ribbons for thirty seconds. Now your lamb is rested, slice across the grain diagonally. Mix with your veg and rocket and drizzle with olive oil and/or balsamic and you have a sexy little salad. If you're feeling dairy inclined add some crumbled Persian fetta or chevre.
Eat alot of tuna and rice! Try and incorporate five meals a day with about 120-150gms of protein and 100 of clean carbs in avg, tapering your carb intake off towards the end of the day.
Have you had a course of roacutane (sp?).
amarshism
Member
Isotretinoin. Roaccutane.
All I can say is, don't ever put that shit inside of your body. No matter how bad you think your skin is. It fucked up my back and probably my brain and I would rather have not taken that shit in my lifetime. I went on a full 6-7 month course and it didn't fix my skin. It's not a good solution. Who in their right mind decides that it is a good idea to treat acne with a compound designed originally as a cancer treatment? It's basically a highly toxic overdose of vitamin A; it's not worth it.
Anyways, I've been on a no diary diet for a couple weeks now, and it seemed to work a bit in the first week but the 2nd week things are back to normal.
I would think that "back in the day" a fresh kill of a lactating mother would be like the honey-hole of that day's hunt. It's very hard to get away from all things dairy, and I'm not going to be ingesting any soy milk/oil/garbage that is filled with estrogen as a substitute. It is a bit weird how we decided to drink cow milk and eat cheese so much.
Do you happen to have a less bullshittastic source than a guy with a degree in naturalopathographicology with a webpage called 'Celestial Healing'? That would be great.
Jeff
Will read through this later, got like 9 hours of uni today then going to see 30Seconds to Mars
As for roaccutane, yeah I was on it for about a month, but I had a nasty reaction to it (won't describe it, especially in a cooking thread XD), so came off it. I actually self-diagnosed myself with rosacaea about a month ago, and I'm fucking appalled that not a single doctor, nor the dermatologist who prescribed me accutane picked up that I had like minimal pimples (there were times where I had no pimples at all, yet was still on 'acne' medication trying to clear up my rosacaea), and a moderate-severe case of rosacaea - which accutane does NOTHING for.
Are you on a 'no dairy' diet to clear up your skin as well? Or is this for an unrelated matter?
If you're trying to clear up your skin, I've got a log of all the things I'm doing (no antibiotics/topicals, but some facewashes and supplements) here: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/nearperfect-diet-supp-t273900.html
Note I didn't really see a HUGE difference for the first 2-3 weeks. It's very slow so its sometimes hard to see a difference, so taking pictures every week or so is a good idea.
P-E
Munchkin
OT, but sometimes you just need to use it, and that's why there's a required monthly follow-up, starting with very small doses that increase with times. I have severe acne and accutane is quite simply making my life better day after day.
Of course it's a very dangerous drug, but that's why those check-ups are so important.
Torniojaws
They call me Juha
It was the first result to contain that info. Most of the scientific info seems to be only in written books, not online sources. Here's some more I found:
http://www.mercola.com/article/milk/no-milk.htm
http://www.rense.com/general26/milk.htm
http://www.notmilk.com/igf1time.txt (tidbit about hormones related to cows and their milk)
http://www.rifeenergymedicine.com/BGH.html
http://www.preventcancer.com/consumers/general/milk.htm
http://www.godairyfree.org/Health-Info/Weight-Loss-Dairy/Obesity-and-Milk.html
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