Countdown to the Election
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FerretallicA
HMAS Slagdestroyer
Priest of Evil
Adores the Number 666
- Dec 1, 2005
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^please correct me if Im wrong but I think the point being discussed is that the Government sold most of Telstra which in turn was a contributing factor to the broadband fiasco...
phlogiston
Bejabbers!
Well, the conversation actually changed to the *current* state of Telstra vs the Government. I kinda just made an aside.
KoichCPA
Banned
I continue to be amazed by the blind faith of the conservatives., you all seem to live in this really simple black and white world where labour=death and degradation and libs=joy. In the past there were labour govts presiding over strong economies and liberal govts presiding over lousy ones (Fraser & Howard anyone?). Also you really have to lift your heads up a little and factor the global scene into your ponderings, it impacts on our export-based economy quite heavily.
Simplistic statements about "all workers will suffer under Rudd" are just that, simplistic. Policy and legislation are complex and subtle matters, their outcomes are measured in shades of grey not just red or blue, I don't believe for a minute ALL workers will suffer either under Crudd or Little Johnny, just that more will suffer under the Johnster. No doubt many workers in Australia recognise the need for working conditions above and beyond wage and are apprehensive about the links between the libs and employer groups, hence the polls at the moment. No doubt big business loves the extra freedom to hire and fire at will and treat staff as they like, this is the common practice in third world countries with very low production costs and business overheads which is why just about all manufacturing is moving over there. A capitalist would go "yay, cheap consumer goods, low cost to business, just what we need, lets do the same here" and turn back the clock on emplyment conditions. As much as some posters here claim to have worked 160 hour weeks and become a man as a result (is it really possible to work 22.85 hours a day, seven days a week? I mean I get fairly busy and work the odd night and weekend but really?) I'm really not sure this is the way forward for developed nations and the fact that none of the other developed nations are following this course tends to suggest it isn't. A socialist would reply by going " what a bad thing to do to your staff and the environment, lets try and get some controls on employee wages, health and safety and environmental damage" and it won't be long before their production costs increase to meet ours and the rest of the developed nations. This is happening in China all ready, reviews and closures of small, outdated power generators that pollute more heavily, new waste management policies, increased wages and conditions etc. Socialists would also encourage equitable access to training and education to increase the skills and knowledge base of the working population to allow it to diversify into new and emerging industries to give us an international edge.
Sometimes the most economical path isn't the best, the need to consider social and environmental outcomes of policy decisions is something capitalism falls down on (PPB dredging is a good example) whereas socialism considers these. The ideal outcome would be a combination of both systems (this is the grey bit kiddies) where policy is formulated that has positive outcomes in all three areas, not easy but possible. Not if you keep harking back to business productivity and home loan interest rates as being the be all and end all though
That's enough from me, I'll go back to not posting around you jerks anymore.
Simplistic statements about "all workers will suffer under Rudd" are just that, simplistic. Policy and legislation are complex and subtle matters, their outcomes are measured in shades of grey not just red or blue, I don't believe for a minute ALL workers will suffer either under Crudd or Little Johnny, just that more will suffer under the Johnster. No doubt many workers in Australia recognise the need for working conditions above and beyond wage and are apprehensive about the links between the libs and employer groups, hence the polls at the moment. No doubt big business loves the extra freedom to hire and fire at will and treat staff as they like, this is the common practice in third world countries with very low production costs and business overheads which is why just about all manufacturing is moving over there. A capitalist would go "yay, cheap consumer goods, low cost to business, just what we need, lets do the same here" and turn back the clock on emplyment conditions. As much as some posters here claim to have worked 160 hour weeks and become a man as a result (is it really possible to work 22.85 hours a day, seven days a week? I mean I get fairly busy and work the odd night and weekend but really?) I'm really not sure this is the way forward for developed nations and the fact that none of the other developed nations are following this course tends to suggest it isn't. A socialist would reply by going " what a bad thing to do to your staff and the environment, lets try and get some controls on employee wages, health and safety and environmental damage" and it won't be long before their production costs increase to meet ours and the rest of the developed nations. This is happening in China all ready, reviews and closures of small, outdated power generators that pollute more heavily, new waste management policies, increased wages and conditions etc. Socialists would also encourage equitable access to training and education to increase the skills and knowledge base of the working population to allow it to diversify into new and emerging industries to give us an international edge.
Sometimes the most economical path isn't the best, the need to consider social and environmental outcomes of policy decisions is something capitalism falls down on (PPB dredging is a good example) whereas socialism considers these. The ideal outcome would be a combination of both systems (this is the grey bit kiddies) where policy is formulated that has positive outcomes in all three areas, not easy but possible. Not if you keep harking back to business productivity and home loan interest rates as being the be all and end all though
That's enough from me, I'll go back to not posting around you jerks anymore.
Goreripper
Metal as fuck
I believe that was a poster on another forum, but I got a good chuckle from that as well. For those who didn't catch that gem, this guy wanted to know why employers were required to have to pay workers who went off sick or hurt themselves in the workplace, because that basically isn't the boss' fault but their own for doing something stupid.
We love you too Josh.
In all the jobs I have worked, as a casual employee, if I had to take a day off sick I had to provide a medical certificate at my expense, despite not having any sick pay entitlements. So basically $50 out of pocket minus a few days pay and all most likely for a bug I picked up at work.
Shannow
Stunt Plough Rider
Stonewall,
work are pressing for doctor's certificates for all sick leave.
Doctors have a 4 day wait for people who aren't either pregnant women, or infants with fevers.
Doctors aren't allowed to backdate a certificate based on a patient's description.
It's funny as fuck watching people trying to get a certificate, and having to take more time off to get it and fake the symptoms that they were experiencing while sick.
work are pressing for doctor's certificates for all sick leave.
Doctors have a 4 day wait for people who aren't either pregnant women, or infants with fevers.
Doctors aren't allowed to backdate a certificate based on a patient's description.
It's funny as fuck watching people trying to get a certificate, and having to take more time off to get it and fake the symptoms that they were experiencing while sick.
The only time I've been to the doctor in the last 18 years was to get a doctor's certificate because I had a few days off work sick.
Goreripper
Metal as fuck
I can usually manage to get in and see my doc if I have to go off sick. I don't need a certificate unless I'm off for more than three days, or have a string of absences in a row (like one day off every week for a month, or something), but if for some reason I can't get to the doctor I have to go to casualty. And we all know that's hell on earth.
Shannow
Stunt Plough Rider
Goreripper
Metal as fuck
And if Telstra was still owned by Government, instead of private shareholders concerned only with profit (hence the summary removal of "unprofitable" payphones in areas where few people have adequate mobile coverage), it wouldn't be such an issue.
Celestial-Todd
The Incredible Bulk
This thread has had 239 posts before my first appearance, which is unusual. The election's still months away yet!
Hmmm what to say? Josh makes a lot of sense. It's a bit rich for the govt to blame Telstra for anything when they sold the bloody company. The GST hurts the poor more than anyone else. If Howard wins the election I'm going to try to swim to China.
The election's still months away yet!Hmmm what to say? Josh makes a lot of sense. It's a bit rich for the govt to blame Telstra for anything when they sold the bloody company. The GST hurts the poor more than anyone else. If Howard wins the election I'm going to try to swim to China.
None of you pinkos have either answered my question or given any good reasons to vote for Labor, why is that I wonder?
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