Countdown to the Election

[Shannow]

I said it's because Howard has become (more of) an arrogant pig to his subjects , and needs to go.

BTW, nobody has raised this yet...Howard won't sit thorough the whole term, and we'll quickly get Costello (which Howard lied about the deal)

Oh, and Howard is a pathological liar.

 

[Goreripper]

Dan, WHAT WAS THE FUCKING QUESTION AGAIN? THere is nothing more annoying than someone saying, "You didn't answer my question" again and again when everyone has clearly forgotten what it was. I asked you a few posts ago to repeat your question, and you still haven't. If I don't know what it is, how can I answer? And if none of the reasons posted by everyone here is good enough for you, then obviously there's no changing your mind. I think just about everyone has come up with more than enough reasons to vote Labor and you've rejected them all. So it's pretty clear that it doesn't matter what we say, you won't be convinced. There's obviously no point, so just stop it.

 

[Dän]

I said it's because Labor politicians are better people than the Coalition.

If you vote based on that you really need to question your values.

 

[Dän]

I said it's because Howard has become (more of) an arrogant pig to his subjects , and needs to go.

BTW, nobody has raised this yet...Howard won't sit thorough the whole term, and we'll quickly get Costello (which Howard lied about the deal)

Oh, and Howard is a pathological liar.

So do you; and howard will stay till the party votes him out; he doesnt like costello and neither does Australia.

 

[Dän]

Dan, WHAT WAS THE FUCKING QUESTION AGAIN? THere is nothing more annoying than someone saying, "You didn't answer my question" again and again when everyone has clearly forgotten what it was. I asked you a few posts ago to repeat your question, and you still haven't. If I don't know what it is, how can I answer? And if none of the reasons posted by everyone here is good enough for you, then obviously there's no changing your mind. I think just about everyone has come up with more than enough reasons to vote Labor and you've rejected them all. So it's pretty clear that it doesn't matter what we say, you won't be convinced. There's obviously no point, so just stop it.

Fucken fire up, I didnt see your post asking for me to repeat my Question, and why the fuck should I find it anyway?

I didnt simply reject your reasans, i debated them and you were unable to provide any substance to your reasons on voting for labor, thus unable to convince me to vote for them

 

[Spiff]

If you vote based on that you really need to question your values.

If I voted (and I've said previously I'm not eligible to vote) I would want a decent person leading the country, has a heart and isn't a proven liar who only cares about keeping interest rates low and not caring one bit about minorities.

I don't think my values need to be questioned at all.

 

[Goreripper]

Fucken fire up, I didnt see your post asking for me to repeat my Question, and why the fuck should I find it anyway?

I didnt simply reject your reasans, i debated them and you were unable to provide any substance to your reasons on voting for labor, thus unable to convince me to vote for them

Well, if you can't be fucked "looking for it", I can't be fucked answering it. If the answer was so important, you wouldn't need to look for the question, you'd just be able to repeat it. And if I was to read through most of the pro-Labor posts here, I'm sure there would be plenty of sound arguments to our reasons. Claiming they have "no substance" simply because you don't agree doesn't mean they don't have any. If you're not going to vote Labor, fine, don't. I don't care. But more than a few of us have actually put some thought into what we've said. Claiming we haven't is ignorant.

 

[Goreripper]

Any pinko here, give me a reason, a real one, not some gay one, why Howard should be voted out. No gay 'I dont have any rights and im earning $7 an hr' as that is bullshit. Debate the undesputibale prosperity this country has seen then I'll consider chaning my conservative view of life.

So I went back to the first page and found this. I'm assuming this is the "question" we're talking about. And it would seem that every single argument, "gay" or not, that everyone else has proposed, that he lies to the electorate regularly, that he's out of touch with the everyday Australian, that his administration has stood by and let Medicare erode, that many people believe his unheralded IR laws will eventually lead to a lower standard of living for a majority of working Australians, that the wholesale sell-off of Government assets has created a vacuum between Government control over what they should provide and what they do provide, that he has failed to gauge the public mood with regards to issues like the climate change debate and the war in Iraq, and that he toadies mercilessly to foreign governments and creates legislation in line with what they believe, simply aren't valid reasons. Your sole argument is in line with the pure capitalistic belief that the Howard government has brought the country some level of economic stability and prosperity, and therefore everything's apples. Regardless of this, Australia will eventually slide into recession, because our glorious economy is virtually completely reliant on primary industry, the prices of which are factored by global markets. Australia needs to concentrate on developing social strategies that will help to ensure that we won't suffer unduly when the next global economic downturn occurs, and Howard has consistenly either eroded these directly or allowed them to erode. If your sole basis for supporting a Government is due to its economic management skills, you are only looking at part of the picture.

 

[Celestial-Todd]

Australia will eventually slide into recession

And when it does, there will be a Labor government in charge of the country. Watch the Liberal's use it as a ploy to get re-elected. Stupid thing is, people would instantly forgot who caused the recession and just blame who is currently in charge.

 

[Goreripper]

The electorate is generally pretty ignorant when it comes to the causes of recessions, so naturally enough they blame the current government. Howard has been fortunate in that he came to power at the tail end of the last major recession, when the economic pendulum was on the upswing. There's a good chance that a recession will hit again in the next few years regardless of who's in power. Naturally if it's a Rudd Labor government, the conservative nay-sayers will immediately claim that it's his fault, but again, Hawke took over after Fraser had presided over some of the worst economic bungling since WW2, and I don't need to remind people who was Treasurer back then. Dan has a point in saying that conservative politics handles an economy better even in recession, but the alarmist mentality that the Australian economy will instantly crumble as soon as a Labor government takes over is flawed.

 

[Sydo]

That's dumb Todd.
Pre-emptive defence propaganda. Blaming liberal, for blaming labor, for a recession that has not occured.

 

[Celestial-Todd]

It's not so stupid when you think about it... there's been countless times where EITHER party has blamed the other for something that was ultimately their own fault. I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable people here can give some example

 

[Goreripper]

Sydo has a point. The recession hasn't occurred, and I've yet to actually hear or read anything about either Party claiming the other will lead us into recession.

 

[Dän]

'Originally Posted by Dän

edit - the brakes are being put on, hence rising interest rates to slow the economy down to ensure sustainable growth; that is precisly the liberal governments aim; not to have a volitile boom and bust economy but one that rises with the overall long term growth regression line of the business cycle, and thats what they have a achieved thus far and thats the exact reason why ill vote for the this election, and its something i think labor is unable to achieve

.

tell me how, siting labor policies, this will be achieved to a higher standard than the liberals, if you dont I have no reason to vote for Labor, simple.'

That was the question from like pg 4

 

[Dän]

And when it does, there will be a Labor government in charge of the country.

Thats because it will be caused by Labor.

Sure a downturn in the economy is inevitable, but it can be offset and softened to prevent a recession if the right policies are in place; that is how Australia has avoided any major downturn over the last decade despite the Asian crisis, a US reciession and a dodgy EU.

If you can't concede to these facts then there is really no point in me debating. You cannot ignore fact regardless of your political persuasion; to ignore fact is just ignorant, and the fact is that the Australian economy is incredibly stable and strong given our relativly small size and our geographical position in the world. I cant understand why you people can't see that, either you see it or you just don't want to admit it because your perfect ideological frame work will come crashing down, or you just genuinly choose to ignore fact.

 

[Dän]

Your sole argument is in line with the pure capitalistic belief that the Howard government has brought the country some level of economic stability and prosperity, and therefore everything's apples.

Yeh pretty much. We're an ecnomy not a society, therefore everything is apples; is that wrong thinking?

Good, stable economy = good and stable society = Liberal Gov
Volitile, weak ecnomy = unpleasnt society with high UE and IR etc... = Labor Gov

Would you at all agree with either of those equations? Or will you ignore fact again?

 

[Stonewall]

Why do you even want to argue with us gay and ignorant pinkos anyway, Dan?

 

[Dän]

Because I get a kick out of it.

 

[Goreripper]

Once again, if the economy is good and stable, why are people losing their homes? Why am I unable to find any more than one single medical practitioner who bulk bills in a city with a higher population than Playford and an area larger than metropolitan Adelaide? Of course a stable economy is preferable to a weak and volatile one, but social programs can't be ignored for the benefit of keeping the economy on an uneven keel. Where are the Liberal policies to re-energise Medicare? Where are the Liberal policies on expanding childcare, above and beyond giving people a "bonus" to help pay for it that's instantly eaten up by higher charges? What are the Liberal Party's social platforms? Can you outline how current Liberal policy is going to help me find a doctor I can go and see for free or create more childcare places without me having to drive for 45 kilometres for either? Because if you can, you're doing a better job than Howard and if you were my local member I'd possibly give you a preference vote.

 

[Sydo]

Of course a stable economy is preferable to a weak and volatile one, but social programs can't be ignored for the benefit of keeping the economy on an uneven keel.

I totally agree. Government is about finding a balance and I believe we have that balance under the current liberal government - therefore I will continue to vote liberal.