Dakryn's Batshit Theory of the Week

We could easily fucking destroy China, tbh.

The United States will not ever begin launching our nuclear arsenal for the sheer fact that if we any one of those weapons heads towards China, then Russia will become instantly aggressive - especially with fallout added into the equation. Other countries in the surrounding region may actually come to China's aid because of their strong financial backing (especially in regards to the U.S.'s current financial crisis). China, being not only diabolical, but not having anyone who can stand against them on the opposite side of the world, would more than likely have no problem launching against United soils if it really came down to a push-shove contest (the likes which we haven't seen in a long time, but on a lesser scale).

@RMS
Did you not read the part where I specifically mention we are completely outnumbered in by sheer military numbers? Not all military units magically gain the "bombs" template to use.
And as a side note, America is fucking terrible at choosing when and where to fight - as demonstrated by the last forty years of warfare. Wars of attrition have had terrible outcomes and always end not in victory, but in exhaustion and insolvency. Yeah, we spend the most money on defense - do you know why? Because of the exorbitant cost it takes to make said machines and weaponry IN AMERICA. Paying our people to make classified shit is expensive, and it's one of the few sectors of work where we don't import (can't trust other countries with our private crap). Do you know why most CIA operatives and Secret Service spy's turn to private sector work instead of continuing their work with the government? The pay SUCKS is why, and that is also the leading reason why spy's have actually turned their coats.

America hasn't used strategy in warfare in a very long time. We have generals who have spent decades studying the art of warfare, only to be unable to act as they see fit due to political struggles between the damned branches of our government (specifically the "broken branch" aka Legislature). Our lack of strategy was most notable in Vietnam, where failure to bomb supply trains was not due to lack of intelligence, but to discord amongst politicians at home (some felt they were smarter than the military leaders and decided to not bomb said lines, thus extending the length of the war for a good period of time).


Do we have fantastic technology? Yes
Do we have a strong military (as in training/tactics/etc)? Yes
Is our military allowed to actually use strategy freely to win wars? No
Do we, as of now, have an underequipped military? Yes
Does the United States, as a leading superpower (even in all it's current turmoil) have far more to lose by unleashing a nuclear arsenal on another nation than China Does? Yes!
Is the United States completely in debt to China? Yes
----Yeah, if we unleashed our arsenal on China they would be obliterated, but there is hopefully no way of that happening (and vice versa). but even if China were to launch its VASTLY SMALLER arsenal our way - all they have to do is hit a few specific targets and our entire economy would hit the shitter. China's authoritarian regime is unrelenting, and they hardly care what the UN thinks (or most of the world for that matter, as long as it doesn't dampen trade that is): they have one of the longest list of human rights violations and are at all times using cyber-warfare in both the public and private sector to gain information and establish niche's where they might - and they do this OPENLY. The U.S. would never admit to such things, because we have far more to lose on an international stage.

Hypothetically, if we were to have each country meet in their current conditions, I feel China would win due to the insane amount of bullshit that has dug its claws into the way the U.S. system operates. We cannot win a war of attrition with China, and if we tried it would be suicide. Stealth and subterfuge would be the only way, and as I already pointed out we have enough problems with that as it is.
 
Accurate Assessment

I think Pessimism put together an fairly accurate assessment of the situation.

People do not understand that
#1: The Chinese military is not that far behind the US technology wise.
#2: The Chinese can single-handedly destroy our economy and therefore our ability to equip our military, without firing a shot. All they have to do is to dump the dollar, and every other nation will be running over each other to dump the dollar as well before the complete devaluation takes place.

Being a borrower is being in a slave position, and the US is massively in debt to China. Now most people like to argue that China wouldn't hurt it's own economy by attacking a major export destination. The fact that the only reason we import so much Chinese stuff is because they finance it too is reason enough. When they see we can't borrow anymore (and we are already at this point, as "quantitive easing" is the Treasury buying the national debt instead of selling it to other countries because there are no buyers), imports are going to drop and this becomes a moot point.

Our regional military involvement irritates both Russia and China, and they would both like to get their hands on the national resources we have been sitting on forever.
 
We may be in debt to China dude, but you do understand that if we don't import their shit they pretty much are screwed, right? :p
 
Think about the effects of NOT importing Chinese goods. We would, in effect, be shooting ourselves in the feet. Rising prices wold occur amongst a deflating dollar all while other countries fill in the trade gaps with China. China will always have other buyers - always.
 
Hey all you guys who are so adamant that the US is dependent on China but not vice versa, how about some numbers to back up these statements? Like import/export figures for each sector of the economy. I'd like to know what is making you so confident that the US is a complete slave to China when it comes to trade.
 
While we currently are "technically" dependent on China, if we stopped importing from China this lead to a rebirth of our own manufacturing base, creating jobs and thus creating the internal flow of money to allow for the purchasing of goods.

We are their slave in terms of debt.
 
While we currently are "technically" dependent on China, if we stopped importing from China this lead to a rebirth of our own manufacturing base, creating jobs and thus creating the internal flow of money to allow for the purchasing of goods.

We are their slave in terms of debt.

Really wrong. Take economics or something?

also

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/09/insurer-boy-cancer/

fail
 
I wish I still had an interest in debating economics because I would love to eviscerate some of the claims made here, especially regarding the protectionist stuff. I could've sworn I saved some especially useful literature on the subject on another computer. I'm so lazy.
 
Damn you for giving my hopes up Cyth

Hey all you guys who are so adamant that the US is dependent on China but not vice versa, how about some numbers to back up these statements? Like import/export figures for each sector of the economy. I'd like to know what is making you so confident that the US is a complete slave to China when it comes to trade.

So much anger echoing in so small a post; let's calm you down a bit.

No one has said China is invincible; I made the claim that China would defeat our current military outside of a nuclear war (and would make off better than us inside of a nuclear war due to geographic placement). We are in debt, but that does not mean that China wouldn't lose out on some ground if they stopped trading with us. However, if China were to sell the bonds that they've invested in us... it would mean bad times.

Here is the CIA factbook (no tin-foil hat wearing asshattery please)
China
U.S.

If you want the Import/Export lists you can always grab it from the Labor Board
Right Here: Import/Export Price Index from China


About.com is owned and operated by the New York Times, and the editors are employed through said company - so there are no wikipedia like false edits here:
U.S. Trade Deficit with China
American-Chinese Trade and Exchange Analysis


The U.S. is expensive, and to make things in the U.S. is an expensive endeavor; for China, they can make things for pennies on the dollar compared to us - stuff that is the same quality, stuff that will be bought by other countries because it is cheaper. We are not slaves to their trade, but there are definitely repercussions from China pulling out of the U.S. Hell, if we turned into an isolationist country we would ruin the international economy while simultaneously dooming every country that receives aid from us and destroying our own infrastructure from within. Isolationist/protectionist tendencies are akin to prohibition, and prohibition was proven to equate to failure.

The fact of the matter is that China owns a chunk of our deficit, and continuously buys more of it while systemically keeping its currency undervalued in the world market. There are reasons for this - think about it.
 
While we currently are "technically" dependent on China, if we stopped importing from China this lead to a rebirth of our own manufacturing base, creating jobs and thus creating the internal flow of money to allow for the purchasing of goods.

We are their slave in terms of debt.

Thats retarded. Most goods from china are mad cheap as hell.
 
I wish I still had an interest in debating economics because I would love to eviscerate some of the claims made here, especially regarding the protectionist stuff. I could've sworn I saved some especially useful literature on the subject on another computer. I'm so lazy.

Why not order one of those earlier edition Economics text books online at amazon for like $4?
 
Isolationist/protectionist tendencies are akin to prohibition, and prohibition was proven to equate to failure.

I don't see how you can correlate the two.

A country with vast natural resources and an able bodied workforce can be isolationist. Protectionist doesn't really work because in the current times that basically leads to isolation by potential trading partners, so you may as well just be isolationist.

Isolationism does not work when you lack either the manpower, technology, or the natural resources to be self sufficient. We lack none of these.
 
China Reserve managers instructed to dump non-USGov dollar securities



Been warning about this for over a year,surprised MSNBC covered it. This is part of the total war that Russia and China can wage, maybe not right now, but both countries are quickly enacting policies to put them in position to use this leverage against us.

I loled at the guy from the Heritage foundation referring to runnning the printing presses as "almost" a scam.
 
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