Dakryn's Batshit Theory of the Week

[cookiecutter]

The thing with privatization is that it would eventually form a equilibrium; knowledge of which school were good, fair, reasonable, etc, would spread, and people would shy away from the school that preached that negroes, jews and etc were inferior. And the people that did attend said school would never get employed.

Fact is, privatization enforces competition, and competition breeds quality. If nothing else, at least it's a hell of a alternative, considering the state of public schools today.

If we were talking businesses I'd be with you all the way. But we aren't talking about factories or stores, we are talking about schools and children. When I have children I want to know that they have a quality school to go to that I have confidence in, I know what is being taught and has oversight to prevent discrimination and any other nasty things. The problem with public schools is not the idea, but the implementation.


Also, for the record, I am not against private schools, mainly for pragmatic reasons.

CC, you have no idea what you're talking about. Just stop.

How can you just assume that everything in a religious school is tailored to the 'religious' side of things?

I had none of that in my history or math courses. There are strict guidelines on what we are required to take (classes that would be taught at any high school: math, biology, etc) and then electives (I took Accounting as an elective, for example).

I have no idea how public schools work as I've been in private education my entire life. Please don't assume you know anything about how private schools work unless you've attended one.

Public schools are like private schools except you don't have to pay and their is NO chance that you will get any religious, political, racial or sexual discrimination. Nor will you get any false views. To be quiet honest ANY religion in a school is doing a disservice to a child. To be blunt religion by it's very nature opposes critical thinking, logic and reason. I find teaching that to children a bad thing especially in the otherwise legitimate environment of school.

Now to answer your criticisms: I did not say that "everything in a religious school is tailored to the 'religious' side of things". See above for my criticism.

"There are strict guidelines on what we are required to take (classes that would be taught at any high school: math, biology, etc) and then electives (I took Accounting as an elective, for example)" - Great. Who decided those? What if your school made you take Bible Study? Or it made you take Homeopathy? Or it made you take a class on the superiority of the white race? That is all legal with private schools and not (thankfully) in a public school.

Also where do you get off telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about. You're the one who's been to one Catholic school, has never attended public school, and can't imagine anything different from your own experience.

 

[cookiecutter]

Agreed Ozzman. As well as in science they teach both Evolution and Creation and leave it up for you to choose.

See this is bullshit. Creationism/ID is so infinitely less reasonable and supported by evidence than evolution that it shouldn't even be CONSIDERED. This is what I mean by doing disservice to a child. Any legitimate scientist will tell you that evolution is correct, yet these schools "present both sides of the argument" as if there was a real argument.

 

[Zephyrus]

I went to Catholic school from kindergarten through 5th grade, and the only religious parts were morning prayer and religion class, which I didn't have every day. Besides that, religion had absolutely nothing to do with my education.

 

[The Ozzman]

One episcopal school, one catholic high school, methodist university for the first two years of college and a Jesuit university for the last two.

I just had a quick chat with V5 over AIM about this. I went to a same sex high school and the environment about religion there was completely different than most schools. The first two years were sort of IN YER FACE CATHOLICISMZZ and then the last two years was more how to develop yourself as a person. Junior year went over world religions, the psychological aspects of a person and spirituality in general. Senior year, I was in AP English and the English and Religion courses were linked if you were in AP English. Now, that year, it was more of a concentration on spirituality rather than religion. That class was more free-thinking than you could imagine. We talked about current events mostly, but related it back to spirituality and development, while not ramming it down our throats.

A good contingent of people at my high school were not Catholic (there were a few atheists there).

Religion does a disservice to a child if it's forced down their throat. If it's taught in conjunction with other courses, while not having the whole 'God created this, so we need to use it' attitude, it's fine. It allows people to be more well rounded. I consider myself agnostic/atheist right now. I can't really decide at the moment, but I'm definitely not Catholic anymore.

 

[skeptik]

North East liberal Catholic school. Go to a Baptist school in the South.

 

[cookiecutter]

Anything that teaches faith as a good thing is not something to teach to children imo

 

[The Ozzman]

North East liberal Catholic school. Go to a Baptist school in the South.

Midwest catholic school

Your geography fucked up?

 

[Matt]

Anything that teaches faith as a good thing is not something to teach to children imo

Coming from an Atheist Your whole opinion is based solely on the idea that 'omg wtf religion is teh badz'.

North East liberal Catholic school. Go to a Baptist school in the South.

We all know that Baptists are fucked in the head.

 

[The Ozzman]

Yeah, I don't think faith is a bad thing if it's taught properly. 'Properly' is the keyword though.

I suppose teaching someone to be spiritual would be better, as it's broader..

 

[cookiecutter]

Coming from an Atheist Your whole opinion is based solely on the idea that 'omg wtf religion is teh badz'.

My whole opinion is based on the idea that believing things without evidence is stupid

 

[Matt]

My whole opinion is based on the idea that believing things without evidence is stupid

You believe that no god exists. There is no evidence of this.

 

[The Ozzman]

You believe that no god exists. There is no evidence of this.

OH SNAP!

 

[cookiecutter]

You believe that no god exists. There is no evidence of this.

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

You believe that no Flying Spaghetti Monster exists. There is no evidence for that. OH SHIT!

Are you so monumentally retarded that you can't see how stupid that argument is? For further reading I suggest you look up Bertrand's Teapot.

 

[MasterOLightning]

The thing with privatization is that it would eventually form a equilibrium; knowledge of which school were good, fair, reasonable, etc, would spread, and people would shy away from the school that preached that negroes, jews and etc were inferior. And the people that did attend said school would never get employed.

Fact is, privatization enforces competition, and competition breeds quality. If nothing else, at least it's a hell of a alternative, considering the state of public schools today.

I completely agree. That's what I was saying in previous posts.

I attended Catholic schools for 12 years. I have no regrets about this, since the Catholic schools in Chicago are far superior to the public schools, despite having fewer resources, and teachers that were being paid less. Fact. I was never taught creationism at any point. I don't really see how creationism is an issue outside of denominations that only accept a literal translation of the Bible. There's nothing about evolution that undermines Catholicism or makes it less true. If you interpret days as eons, then there's really no reason you can't believe in creation via evolution. That's a different argument really.

I feel quite confident though that there's no reason to be concerned about religious schools in urban areas. Religion only comes up in religion class, which is one period a day, for three out of four years of high school. No one crams god into calculus, gym class, history, or biology even. I know many people in college who went to area Catholic schools and had similar experiences.

CC's comments about discrimination and such seem very baseless. There were a handful of jewish and muslim kids, and christians of many other denominations at my school. For private schools, money is the bottom line. You need enough students to stay open.

 

[The Ozzman]

Russell's teapot, sometimes called the Celestial Teapot, was an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970), intended to refute the idea that the burden of proof lies upon the sceptic to disprove unfalsifiable claims of religions. In an article entitled "Is There a God?",[1] commissioned (but never published) by Illustrated magazine in 1952, Russell wrote:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

.

 

[cookiecutter]

CC's comments about discrimination and such seem very baseless. There were a handful of jewish and muslim kids, and christians of many other denominations at my school. For private schools, money is the bottom line. You need enough students to stay open.

It can and has happened, but special emphasis on CAN. What stops those schools from only hiring Catholic teachers? Nothing, and that is what I object too. Also, what will inevitably happen is that poorer people will go to shittier schools. I realize that this is pretty much how it is now, but I think we should fight that instead of giving into it.

EDIT: at Russell

 

[Crimson Velvet]

If we were talking businesses I'd be with you all the way. But we aren't talking about factories or stores, we are talking about schools and children. When I have children I want to know that they have a quality school to go to that I have confidence in, I know what is being taught and has oversight to prevent discrimination and any other nasty things. The problem with public schools is not the idea, but the implementation.

I am sorry, but how exactly would this play out any differently in practice? There is supply and demand, and there is good quality and bad quality. It may seem heartless, but the school system is a market just like any other.

 

[cookiecutter]

Not if there is a well funded, well regulated public school system to which everyone can be admitted.

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

Not if there is a well funded, well regulated public school system to which everyone can be admitted.

 

[Pessimism]

Too bad you can disprove Russell's paradox with science. Now if it was a mass/matterless teapot...that is something I'd like to see!

Still a good hypothetical though, which leads me to this awesome comic:

Hyperlink here