Dak
mentat
My dismissive attitude was inspired by your sweeping claim that emergence can be discounted because nothing is truly more than the sum of its parts. This is haplessly uninformed, especially regarding all the literature from the past decade on emergent processes.
The claim that a "sum without all additives identified is missing important elements" isn't a scientific claim, Dak; it relies on no scientific evidence and appeals to no studies. There are books, tomes, written on this subject that describe how emergent phenomena cannot be explained by reducing them to reactions between their component parts. This isn't paradoxical or non-tautological; it's simply an acknowledgement that entities on different scales function differently, and that, just as a human being is an assemblage of cells and tissue and genetics, so a city is an assemblage of human beings (among other things). This is a very intense materialist understanding of how large scale entities can emerge and abide by entirely different laws than their components. We wouldn't have social networks or cities without conscious subjectivity; but social networks and cities can't be mapped linearly or according to personal beliefs, as individual human subjects can. They don't function according to "rational" desires.
Manuel DeLanda offers the best description, in my opinion. Of course, he acknowledges that emergent phenomena wouldn't exist without their component parts; but the material ontology of emergent phenomena - their scientific nature, we could say - engages complex models that draw from but develop upon constituent parts. They cannot simply be viewed as a lump sum.
I asked you to read these books - not all of which are philosophy books (Gould was a scientist, as is Johnson, and DeLanda's philosophical models appeal specifically to scientific terminology) - because they provide the evidence that contradict your anti-emergence claim. Finally, I don't understand how you can agree that consciousness is an emergent phenomenon and yet deny the tenets of emergence as such.
Well I don't mind reading, I just lack time. You saw how long it took me to finish Up From Slavery (and it has nothing to do with reading speed).
The reason I don't have to frame or interpret emergence in the same way some other person does is the same reason I don't draw the same conclusions from contingency. A robust understanding of probability replacing a simplistic cause/effect view is really not that radical at all unless probabilities are radically different, and emergence does not necessarily flip anything on its head other than dualism.
Let us say it is not the "sum" of it's parts. It is the product then. This still does not allow for theories which counteract the base yet remain stable or coherent in some way.
Additionally, I disagree that organizations of bodies are any less rational than the individual bodies purely on principle. The framework is the same, we just substitute people and machines for the sense organs and nervous systems, and the decision making levels of management as various levels of executive function.
I believe theories that reflect the complexity of modernity are more useful than archaic notion of the conscious, rational, economic subject.
Archaic notions about the conscious, rational economic subject, or that the very notion of the conscious, rational, economic subject exists is archaic?