"Deathgrind" to the lions

[SculptedCold]

No, that particular album is pure grind; the lyrics are entirely political and social commentary, and the songs are extremely short blasts of noise with little discernable variations in riffing or experiments in rhythmic complexity.

 

[Life Sucks]

I don't like the first Napalm Death album that much. It's pretty much just a wall of noise and all the songs sound the same. Maybe it lies in the crappy production. But it sure is a grind album though.

 

[HardSide]

So question...what exactly is mudvayne? Other then utter shit. And dont tell me nu-metal, that just means new generation metal.

 

[Life Sucks]

Mudvayne is commercial alternative metal.

 

[SculptedCold]

Let's not bother with Hardside's trolling idiocy, considering it's not even relevant to the topic.

 

[LuminousAether]

Deathgrind? How redundant. By it's definition, grindcore is a marriage of hardcore and death metal. There's already death metal in the mix. For example, Nasum have huge death metal influences in their sound, but they are definitely 100% grindcore. The Locust have very little death metal influence, their influence is more from hardcore, but they are also a grindcore band. Deathgrind is redundant, unnecessary, and plain flat out stupid.

 

[LuminousAether]

Grindcore is not affiliated with Death Metal directly.....Grindcore is a hyperfast, heavy, often messily played evolution of punk. People only associate grind with metal and death metal because the two have been made hybrid by so many bands, and the speed shared by both can make distinguishing them confusing. But trust me, most pure grind had nothing to do with metal, with the possible exception of Repulsion.....and the two have been blended into the distinct subgenre of deathgrind. Generally, deathgrind music has longer songs than pure grind, is lyrically/thematically almost always death (violence, gore etc) as opposed to punk (political and social critique) and is played with more skill and dynamics. Pure grind tends not to have as many solos, complex rhythms, or much atonal guitar work. Deathgrind vocals are also far more commonly low, gurgly and guttural, and there's often spoken samples thrown into songs, as opposed to grind which is vocally usually screamers/yellers.

As for distinguishing deathgrind from death metal, most deathgrind is either, or alternates between, straightforward hyperblasting or/and sloppy-sounding chugs. Deathgrind can often shift tempos very quickly, but it's generally not complex or technical in arrangement, so bands like Decapitated and Dying Fetus you can instantly disregard. Deathgrind doesn't utilize melody, so you can disregard your melo-death stuff, but it usually has some hooks and slam-groove riffing if it's chugging away, and for the most part it's deliberately underproduced to sound crushingly heavy. If you want to hear what a deathgrind band sounds like, download some music by Foetopsy, Sikfuk and Enmity for example; you'll see exactly why you can't parallel it with bands like Immolation or Incantation or Dying Fetus or Decapitated etc etc etc.

This is absolutely not true. Grindcore from the start was created by bands such as Napalm Death and Carcass, bands with HUGE death metal aspects to their sound. Grindcore has been death metal married with hardcore from day one, a mixture of the caustic rhythmic aggression of death metal with the more energetic and forceful feelings hardcore evokes.

 

[LuminousAether]

Nice work SculptedCold>>

I'll give my 2 cents - the simple version......

grind = death metal + punk - simple but heavy riffs, raw production, short songs, generally fast-paced, lots of blasting and catchy mid-tempos, vocals can be growling, shouting, screaming or a combination of all three. Lyrical themes range from political to funny to anything really. eg. Rot, Anal Cunt, Excruciating Terror, Birdflesh, Dahmer

goregrind = pretty much the same as grind but often with a more dirty/muddy sound, pitch-shifted gurgly vocals, often slower and even more simple in structure than grind, lyrics and themes are all gore-oriented. Horror movie samples often incorporated in songs or used for intros. eg. Neuro-Visceral Exhumation, Last Days of Humanity, Dead Infection, Squash Bowels

porngrind = pretty much the same as goregrind but with everything porn-themed. Porn samples, porn lyrics, porn artwork, you get the idea. Really good porngrind bands (IMO) are able to capture a really sleazy, dirty feeling to their music. eg. Gut, Purulent Spermcanal, Creamface, Mucupurulent, Rompeprop

then there's the newer "tech-grind" bands like Pig Destroyer, AgNb, Dillinger Escape Plan, Discordance Axis who are a combination of grindcore and tech death metal I spose.

ok I'm done now.

Discordance Axis and Pig Destroyer are just grindcore. They aren't in any stupid subgenres, they are just flat out grindcore. DEP are a mixture of math metal and metalcore, or just mathcore.

 

[Chopstick up the Peehole]

Discordance Axis and Pig Destroyer are just grindcore. They aren't in any stupid subgenres, they are just flat out grindcore. DEP are a mixture of math metal and metalcore, or just mathcore.

I disagree.

If DA and PD are just straight grindcore, then what would you call bands like Rot, Extreme Noise Terror, Agathocles, Nasum, Excruciating Terror etc...????
Those bands are pure grindcore: death metal + punk. They don't have any fancy stuff, just straightforward grinding-ness.
Bands like DA and PD have some of those grindcore elements but they bring in a lot of technical elements from technical death metal, that's why they get called "tech-grind". Some of those Rochester-style bands even call themselves tech-grind. It might be a dumb term, but it makes sense and is becoming a legitimate sub-genre IMO.

....and how the fuck can you tell me about stupid sub-genres when you're using the terms math metal and metalcore - probably the dumbest sub-genre names of all time.

 

[SculptedCold]

This is absolutely not true. Grindcore from the start was created by bands such as Napalm Death and Carcass, bands with HUGE death metal aspects to their sound. Grindcore has been death metal married with hardcore from day one, a mixture of the caustic rhythmic aggression of death metal with the more energetic and forceful feelings hardcore evokes.

You forget however that death metal was clearly not a well recognised or widespread genre at this time though. If the first grind albums were Scum, Reek of Putrefaction and Realm of Chaos, it's worth bearing in mind that death metal itself was only established as a genre at roughly the same time. Both grind and death metal developed at the same time, and both evidently influenced by the speed and morbidity of Slayer, although they themselves were not what anyone would call death metal now or in the day. If grind has such a death metal aspect to their sound, where did they get it from? You're confusing that sound with influence, which it is not. It wasn't until after this that the styles started feeding from one another and developing into hybrids of eachother.

 

[LuminousAether]

Nasum is VERY similar to Discordance Axis and Pig Destroyer. If anything, Nasum is more technical.

Also, metalcore is a much bigger subgenre than grindcore. It's also MUCH better. I can think of at least 10 metalcore bands that I love and I can only think of a couple grindcore songs that I love. Metalcore bands usually have a lot more technicality and skill than grindcore bands, and I appreciate that over caustic bursts of noise.

 

[dill_the_devil]

Y'know, I'm in an unenviable position within this debate. I'd like to become a full-time, paid extreme music journalist. This requires a certain level of knowledge about the vagaries and complexities of the various genres, sub-genres, scenes and movements in music, an ability to articulately describe the differences and, in essence, to attempt to intellectualise and write about an essentially irrational concept - why music sounds good or bad.

I do believe sub-genres and the tendency of people in general to need to pigeonhole their listening experiences to be counterproductive and pointless. If I had my way, music would simply be considered 'good' or 'bad' and metal publications and magazines would consist of nothing but mail-order catalogueing, advertisements of new releases and tour dates and interviews.

But, if I had my way, the career path I wish to take would not exist.

Life's a bitch, ain't it?

Rant off.

 

[SculptedCold]

Genres and labelling is a necessity. They are what makes music intelligible. The human mind is unable to take in and comprehend anything at all without assigning definition and terms. If there were no genres or labels, there would be no such thing as music, because having a range of music that has variations in sound automatically generates the need for cataloguing in the human mind. The very idea of music without genre although conceptually possible, is in fact practically impossible.

 

[Chopstick up the Peehole]

Nasum is VERY similar to Discordance Axis and Pig Destroyer. If anything, Nasum is more technical.

Huh? Have you even heard these bands apart from 1 - 2 songs?? Because your comments indicate that you haven't.

I can think of at least 10 metalcore bands that I love and I can only think of a couple grindcore songs that I love.

So that makes it a better style of music??

metalcore is a much bigger subgenre than grindcore .......... caustic bursts of noise.

Your ignorance shines through. You're not in any position to be commenting on grind.

as for "metalcore" - what the fuck is it? Please inform me of some "metalcore" bands and what it is about their sound that makes them "metalcore" and not some other genre. I'm intrigued.....

 

[LuminousAether]

Well let's see, I own these grind albums:

Nasum - Human 2.0
Nasum - Helvete (best grind album easily)
Discordance Axis - The Inalienable Dreamless
Pig Destroyer - Prowler in the Yard
The Locust - Plague Dreamscapes

I would say the most technical by far is Nasum - Helvete.

And OF COURSE when I say a style of music is better than another it's my opinion. When you are talking about music there's no such thing as an indisputable fact (and to the person who inevitably quotes me saying that there are indisputable facts, I'm making fun of people when I say that and you are fucking stupid for believing me), it's ALL opinion. So if I like more of a certain style of music, of FUCKING COURSE I consider it to be better.

Also, I am in a good enough position to comment on grind. Sure I've only heard about 20 or so albums of the style so I'm not the most learned grind fan, but I've heard many of the bands talked about in this thread and I think that all this sub-genre-ization is fucking pointless, weak, and makes the person who did it a music nazi, one of the worst things you can be.

And what's metalcore? A mixture of any kind of metal with hardcore. So yes, grindcore could be considered to be a style of metalcore. Many metalcore bands such as Converge bear numerous stylistic similarities to grindcore anyways. So what does this mean? It means metalcore is a style of music characterized by aggressive yelled vocals, numerous breakdowns, and hardcore played as metal.

Metalcore bands:
Converge
Botch
Early Cave In
7 Angels 7 Plagues
From Autumn to Ashes
Poison the Well
Avenged Sevenfold
Unearth
Bleeding Through

 

[dill_the_devil]

Eighteen Visions are a good addition to that list, too... Well explained, man.