Describe Prog Metal

[Pharaoh]

A girl I work with (age 22) made it a point to seriously ask me this morning "what is progressive metal?" I wasn't expecting it..the last time I loaned "V" to someone else at work, it was removed from her home and labeled "devil worship music". Word got around that it's my "midlife crisis." and I don't even bring it up, except I have a SymX band photo on my Lab drawer just to keep them wondering. So here was part of the conversation and I have to admit I was at a loss for words to describe just what this music is.

"So Stu, what is progressive metal music anyway?"
"Wow, it's hard to describe, but it's like, very heavy, intricate music. Ever hear of Dream Theater?"
"No. Is it Industrial music"
"Oh no, a lot of it is symphonic with classical influences"
"You mean with a lot of instruments"
"Not necessarily, just very technical and tight and lyrics are intelligent and deep"
(Now I lost her.)
"Not like Goth, is it?
"Oh God no, not at all. It's really intricate and heavy, you gotta listen to it loud. The musicians are all highly talented."
"Anything like Death Metal? Like Marilyn Manson, kinda?"
"Wow, you know about all these other types, but never heard of Prog?"
"No, I don't know what it is!! Metal is like Metallica, is it like that?"
"No. Ever hear Kansas, Genesis, odd stuff from the 70s and 80s? Prog has odd time signatures, makes you really listen to the changes."
She shakes her head. "Like Korn?..or is is very weird kind of music?"
"NO NOT KORN. Would you take the time to really give it an honest listen if I brought a CD in for you?"
"Yeah, sure!"
"YOU JUST HAVE TO HEAR IT, I GUESS!!!"

People, this was REALLY hard! Anybody else have to go round and round trying to explain this genre? I'm going to let her listen to "Odyssey" and probably a DT CD, or maybe Blind Guardian.

What is the simplest and most concise description of Prog Metal? If you say "Symphonic Prog Metal, they seem to be lost right away.

 

[scanner313]

Hi, I'd like to order scrambled eggs and a sweet roll, please.

Sorry, we don't have sweet rolls.

Oh, ok then I'll have pancakes and a sweet roll.

Sir, we don't have sweet rolls.

Oh, well then I'll have a cup of coffee and a sweet roll.

SIR, WE DON'T HAVE SWEET ROLLS!

Hmmm, I guess then I'll have a glass of orange juice and a sweet roll.

AAAAAAAARGHHHH!!!

By the way, Is that like Korn?

 

[scanner313]

But on a serious note...

I don't think there is any easy way to describe prog metal. Your best bet is to just let someone hear it. If they like metal they should like prog. If they don't like metal then don't even waste your time trying to explain or show it to them. It's not worth the effort you had to put in there Pharaoh.

 

[Luis]

Progressive Metal incorporates elements of classical music, resulting in long, complex instrumental passages and dramatic, grandiose flourishes. Prog musicians do have classical elements, and classical training as well (specially keyboardists), but they also have jazz (Awekenings) and psychedelic influences.

SymponyX is PURE Progressive Metal.

 

[Kate Bush Rules!]

Progressive Metal incorporates elements of classical music, resulting in long, complex instrumental passages and dramatic, grandiose flourishes. Prog musicians do have classical elements, and classical training as well (specially keyboardists), but they also have jazz (Awakenings) and psychedelic influences.

SymponyX is PURE Progressive Metal.

Since you have pretty much given a description of Symphony X there, are they the only "prog metal" you know of? Most prog is more jazz orientated than neo-classical. SyX don't really have many influences other than metal and classical. No, one little piano solo in one song doesn't make them "a jazz-influenced band".

The only reason anyone thinks that SyX is progressive is because their record company says they are. How can they be pure prog metal when they are 80% power metal?

I suggest you bring in the Dream Theater album "Scenes From a Memory" or maybe "Awake". If you have Aghora's album bring that in. Don't bring in Symphony X. I'm not saying this because they're not prog, i'm saying it because people tend to laugh at them and dismiss them as some cheesy metal band (in my experience). You don't want her to think that about progressive metal do you?

 

[Luis]

Since you have pretty much given a description of Symphony X there, are they the only "prog metal" you know of? Most prog is more jazz orientated than neo-classical. SyX don't really have many influences other than metal and classical. No, one little piano solo in one song doesn't make them "a jazz-influenced band".

The only reason anyone thinks that SyX is progressive is because their record company says they are. How can they be pure prog metal when they are 80% power metal?

I suggest you bring in the Dream Theater album "Scenes From a Memory" or maybe "Awake". If you have Aghora's album bring that in. Don't bring in Symphony X. I'm not saying this because they're not prog, i'm saying it because people tend to laugh at them and dismiss them as some cheesy metal band (in my experience). You don't want her to think that about progressive metal do you?

Jason Rullo is a jazz drummer and i only mentioned Awekenings as a example. If you dont like my definiton, tell me yours.

 

[The Metal Chick]

I have a feeling this is going to go into the horrible discussion as to whether or not SymX is prog, but that is not the issue here. I really hate it when people ask me to describe SymX because I really can't. I tried recently and I had to laugh when the guy told me that he classifies anything said to be metal as something like Metallica. I think that someone who thinks that way isn't open minded enough to appreciate SymX. As for people laughing during their first listen of SymX, that has never happened to me; anyone that I have introduced them to has either really enjoyed it, or simply didn't care. Pharoah, I think you should give her The Odyssey to listen to. Perhaps it isn't the perfect definition of prog, but it is the perfect definition of EXCELLENCE.

 

[Polyeidus]

Bah

 

[ElPredicador]

you know, I define prog metal as: mixture of prog rock, metal, some classical and jazzy influences. It is, in some sense, deep music (that is, that gets deep into you, it's not superflual)
prog rock is the following: people that during the 70's stopped playing 3-minutes songs about love to start singing 10-minutes songs about nothing. Really,my definition of prog rock is rock with a lot of psychedelic, abit of classical, influences.
or maybe you could define them as undefinable.

PS: jazzy influences in SX show mainly in they odd rythmics, time signatures and metrics. This certainly doesn't come from classical influences, and less from 'pure' metal.

 

[SilentRealm]

I describe Prog similarly. To me its Metal with other more classic styles such as classical or jazz incorporated into it. You don't HAVE to have jazz in it to be prog, thats just silly. To me prog is probably the most harmonious metal. Other than that, tell people to just listen to it and make up their own minds on what they think it is.

To me SyX isn't power metal, it doesnt have that cheesy yodelling lyrics that power metal pretty well always seems to have.

And just because we havent seen any hard jazz influence out of SyX yet, doesnt mean we never will. I think theyre still moving in more directions to whats been shown so far.

 

[theodyssey]

Kate bush... i think your idea of prog is just as closed minded as you claim Luis's to be.

 

[Mr. Shred-ididle]

I've givin up on KBR. I really just can't understand her/him (what are you anyway M or F?). Just because she thinks SyX are power metal doesn't mean she's/he's better than the people who think they're prg metal. Well, thats the impression i get from him/her.

But lets not get into that, ay? it's not the place here.

My definition;
Prog metal: Extreemily higly-skilled musicians, with out-of-this-planet technique and musicianship. Getting together to make very technical, inticate and complex music. Often having influence of jazz, classical or orchestral or other influence beaming through the music. Mixing this with the hard-edged-ness of metal (No, not like Mettalica or Marlyn Manson). But deep, intelligent lyrics (often based on Mythology) and very melodic, clean singing. To make often long, long songs, solo's, instrumental sections with odd-time rhythm's and instrumentation.

Thats a pretty good definition for ya!

 

[theodyssey]

i think it's something that has to be experianced. I agree with most artists... defining music is dumb. Unfortunately, it is sort of a necessity, but who's to say whether it's death metal or folk metal, prog metal or evil death dragon metal?
i think if there are going to be labels, symphony x is fucking prog metal. Period. I think KBR is basing the prog genre on old 70s prog. I have to say that prog metal is different from 70s prog... it's metal, so it's gonna sound different and pull different influences than just jazz. What about ephal duath's first album? Prog Black metal. Is there jazz in it? no. Go tell them it's not prog. And i bet you wouldn't have the balls to go up to mike and tell him his shit isn't prog.

Finally, i'm not trying to start a flame war or anything. I'm just saying it's hypocritical to call someone else narrow minded in their views of a genre when you do the same thing in a different way.

 

[Mr. Shred-ididle]

hypocritical, you could say?
But lets not get into this now, it could be messy!

 

[theodyssey]

heh... i wasn't directing anythign at you shreddie... just so you know. and i resign from any flame wars from this point on. i respect everyone's oppinion unless they are blatantly attacking someone else's... then it's bullshit.

 

[Mr. Shred-ididle]

I know you weren't directing anything at me, i was meaning the definition of what you were trying to saying about KBR's responce. I didn't read your second post, so i was refering to your first....sorrey for the misinterpretation.

 

[theodyssey]

no problem bud. but i'm tired... off to bed.

 

[Pharaoh]

Thanks.

She asked again today. She's curious and interested cause she loves music. I think I'll give her "The Odyssey" song and some DT to listen to.

Reading these replies and descriptions, it's easy to see why prog appeals so much to musicians. People who aren't musicians would be lost with some of the descriptive words, but there are so many elements within this music. I conclude that people have to "FEEL" it and experience it, then love it or leave it, really.

For those of us who truly understand it, it's a precious thing and there's a lot to share among ouselves. That's why we're here. No, I'm not getting the "prog elitist" thing going.
Just gotta get working on that commune!!

 

[Kate Bush Rules!]

I've givin up on KBR. I really just can't understand her/him (what are you anyway M or F?). Just because she thinks SyX are power metal doesn't mean she's/he's better than the people who think they're prg metal. Well, thats the impression i get from him/her.

But lets not get into that, ay? it's not the place here.

My definition;
Prog metal: Extreemily higly-skilled musicians, with out-of-this-planet technique and musicianship. Getting together to make very technical, inticate and complex music. Often having influence of jazz, classical or orchestral or other influence beaming through the music. Mixing this with the hard-edged-ness of metal (No, not like Mettalica or Marlyn Manson). But deep, intelligent lyrics (often based on Mythology) and very melodic, clean singing. To make often long, long songs, solo's, instrumental sections with odd-time rhythm's and instrumentation.

Thats a pretty good definition for ya!

I'm a guy. I don't think I am better than anyone who thinks that SyX are prog metal. I just have seen that most people who think they are prog are usually more power metal fans than fans of prog metal bands like Dream Theater, Cynic, Opeth, Aghora, King Crimson, Tool, etc. Look at this forum. How many Opeth threads do you see compared to Angra threads for example?

I don't think that prog has to be technical. Look at TOOL. Their songs are not technical (even though the composition is complicated) but they are usually long, and incorporate various influences into their metal style. And why do people here characterise shredding as some kind of "prog guitar technique"? When I think of deep and intelligent lyrics, I think of more personal, emotional lyrics than mythology-based lyrics. The vocals in prog metal don't have to be clean. See Opeth and Cynic.

Most people often ignore that bands that claim to be progressive should have originality and should progress from album to album.


Pharoah, I don't think you should give a really long song to a first-time listener. They should get the shorter, more accessible songs first then gett into the long ones.

 

[Harp Heaven]

Progressive Metal is, simply put, the only good music in the world. It combines influence from EVERY type of music in EXISTENCE and incorporates them in EVERY song and EVERY album. It is characterized by fast guitar solos, UNBELIEVABLY difficult time signatures like 7/8, 5/8 and 3/8, lots of changes (not like those mainstream shit boring bands LOL) and INCREDIBLY intricate music. There is no music more complicated than prog metal. Anyone who does not agree is wrong and has probably a large deficit of musical intelligence. Ignore them.