Describe Prog Metal

[theodyssey]

i don't think opeth is prog. they are good, but not prog.

 

[Polyeidus]

Opeth is WAAAY progressive duder.

 

[Mr. Shred-ididle]

Yeah, they're death metal with HEAPS of 70's prog in there, not prog in the 90's sense of shreding and playing 11/16.

 

[Demonspell]

Anyone who denies that Opeth is progressive is operating under either a faulty or absurdly narrow definition of the term.

 

[Kate Bush Rules!]

How boring would this board be without me?

 

[Polyeidus]

Not boring. Relaxed, but not boring.

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

Progressive Metal is, simply put, the only good music in the world. It combines influence from EVERY type of music in EXISTENCE and incorporates them in EVERY song and EVERY album. It is characterized by fast guitar solos, UNBELIEVABLY difficult time signatures like 7/8, 5/8 and 3/8, lots of changes (not like those mainstream shit boring bands LOL) and INCREDIBLY intricate music. There is no music more complicated than prog metal. Anyone who does not agree is wrong and has probably a large deficit of musical intelligence. Ignore them.

Just tell your friend that.

No, seriously... don't have them listen to Symphony X. SX is a mix of prog and power. It's going to confuse your friend into thinking that prog has to be neoclassical and stuff... they'll basically mix up prog and power/neoclassical. Bring in DT who has nothing but prog, and have them check it out. The first 6 tracks from "Scenes From a Memory" work very well with showing people what prog can do.

BTW, Romeo says that Symphony X isn't really a prog band - they have prog influences, but they're not a prog band. Read older interviews.

 

[Polyeidus]

That's a good thought.

 

[Pharaoh]

RE: The first 6 tracks from "Scenes From a Memory"...yeah, I sure agree with that for a descriptive "prog" sample. But personally when I think "Prog Metal" I think of a song like "Inferno" or "Medusa", etc.

Your posts are great, I know the topic has been covered before, but it's always cool to read everybody's perspectives on the genre thing.
Thanks!

 

[Grom Hellscream]

I damn well like Symphony X. But unlike most people on this forum they're not my favourite band or even in my top 5, and unlike most I am able to go against the general opinion that they're a progressive band just because InsideOut Music says they are.

No they are not progressive. InsideOut are bastards and liars! Opeth is progressive. They are so damn progressive as a super progressive band Porcupine Tree, I even can't see the difference! Seriously! They rule!

Opeth is quite progressive. They have made some of the most beautiful metal music ever, and they have many influences which they incorporate into their emotional musical journeys. Not to mention that each band member is very talented and inventive. Opeth has the beauty of which you speak.

Ever heard Atheist, Mekong Delta, Cynic - that's talented and inventive and innovative music.

Dream Theater are also a very original and emotional band. They're much more than just skilled musicians. If you think they show off more than Symphony X, just compare the solos. How many DT solos are at blinding speed compared to SyX ones? SyX show off far more than Dream Theater, it amazes me that people can't see that. James LaBrie a bad singer? Bad singers don't get to be in operas.

Very original. Ever heard Rush?
Compare the solos. Try all of their live albums, especially Scenes From New York.
It amazes you that people can't see that, but you can. So, maybe the problem is in you, not in all others?
What operas? Leonardo, you mean, or what? Well, Leonardo is good, you're right, but again I say, check DT live albums.

By "progression" i didn't mean albums getting better. I meant changing from album to album. Dream theater and Opeth have done plenty of this while Symphony X do not seem to change their style much from album to album.

I must say that Damnation Game , Divine Wings of Tragedy, Twilight In Olympus, V - The New Mythology Suite, The Odyssey are VERY different albums. That's my humble opinion. If you think, that these albums are quite identical, than you have to listen music more profound

Power metal isn't all stupid. Blind Guardian don't suck. Nightwish don't suck. Symphony X don't suck. In fact they're all very good bands. I have listened to all these bands far more than just 7 times and I still like them.

Nightwish is power metal? Hm...
I thought that Gamma Ray or early Helloween are power metal. Nightwish is dweeb metal . Symphony X don't suck, you're right, although they have no concern with power metal, Blind Guardian don't suck, mostly. I'm sorry if I have offended someone, I didn't mean power to be stupid, I just wanted to say that Symphony X is something very different. Maybe they have some influences of thrash,neo-classical, but not power. That's what I wanted to say.

P.S. Some thoughts. You know, I don't understand, why Mike Portnoy is the uncrowned king of modern drummers. He is considered to be the most outstanding drummer, with superb technique etc. I really think he is very overrated. But something restrains me from going to Mike P. 's board and claiming all the time : "You are blind my children! Open your eyes, Victoria! Mike Portnoy seriously suck!". That's all for today.

to everyone: Sorry guys for that little flame

 

[Soul of Ice]

ok this is the definitive prog metal definition:

3 Chords, downtuned guitars, no solos (cause they aint cool), a DJ, 4/4 time, and singers who are mad at their dads

But seriously I would say the best example of progressive metal is ARK - Burn the Sun (though Jorn got a bit silly sometimes)

 

[Kate Bush Rules!]

Ever heard Atheist, Mekong Delta, Cynic - that's talented and inventive and innovative music.

Very original. Ever heard Rush?

Maybe they have some influences of thrash,neo-classical, but not power. That's what I wanted to say.

P.S. Some thoughts. You know, I don't understand, why Mike Portnoy is the uncrowned king of modern drummers. He is considered to be the most outstanding drummer, with superb technique etc.

I don't know Mekong Delta but I like Atheist and I love Cynic. I agree that they're very talented and inventive.

Yes I've heard Rush and I have four of their albums. They're a big influence on Dream Theater, but DT doesn't clone them in any way. John Petrucci's biggest influence is Steve Morse, not Alex Lifeson.

You really think that Symphony X have absolutely no power metal influences? What about the high-pitched vocals, the fantasy lyrics, galloping guitar riffs..?

Mike Portnoy is a great drummer but I don't think he is by any means the best.
Oh and I suggest that you stay away from Mike Portnoy's internet discussion boards. They suck.

 

[SilentRealm]

wow i didnt check this thread in a couple of days, thanx for the entertainment lol.

 

[t.a.j.]

prog metal is metal that is more technically difficult, creative, odd and/or grander in scale than other metal.

another interpretation:
progrock used to be rock music for the advanced listener.
but taking a look at today's popular music scene, 50% of all metal would qualify, damn I sometime get the impression that anything with at least one rythmn change and more than two riffs would.

progressive stems from progression, thus progressive metal is metal that progresses beyond the usual boundaries of the genre.

 

[Pharaoh]

progressive stems from progression, such progressive metal is metal that progresses beyond the usual boundaries of the genre.

Aah, simplicity within the complexity, or verse-visa :Spin:
That's great....and I'm not being a sarcastic smart-ass. either!

 

[Polyeidus]

prog metal is metal that is more technically difficult, creative, odd and/or grander in scale than other metal.

another interpretation:
progrock used to be rock music for the advanced listener.
but taking a look at today's popular music scene, 50% of all metal would qualify, damn I sometime get the impression that anything with at least one rythmn change and more than two riffs would.

progressive stems from progression, such progressive metal is metal that progresses beyond the usual boundaries of the genre.

I agree with Pharoah. It's really very simple, when you know why prog is prog.

Also, taj named THE most definitive description for prog in general, no matter what anyone "feels" about it. It's kinda like having the opinion that apples are really red, green, and yellow oranges. Rediculous right?

prog metal is metal that is more technically difficult, creative, odd and/or grander in scale than other metal.

Right. This is a simple statement that carries so many details, including symphonic, outside the norm, non mainstream rock or metal. I'm sorry, but this is just how it is. If anyone disagree's with this, then they probably have formed an "opinion" of what prog is without truly understanding why something was EVER called prog.

Prog has evolved. From rock. From The Beatles. Why the Beatles? Well, if another band started it, who was it? That's right... THE most ground breaking addition to rock? Yuuup. Art rock, that is. Revolver. Sgt. Peppers.

Like I said already, one just cannot put it in a box. Hardly anyone understands that prog started in the late sixties with The Beatles leaving three minute songs for psychedelica. Prog almost met it's demise when punk and new wave hit the scene.

Three main elements(yes there are, or more came with time):
1. Must be executed with virtuosity.
2. Must engage the listner.
3. Extended composition onto the basis of rock.

Early 70's onward brought symphonic composition, electronic implementation, and of course, Krautrock.

Arguments null. This is prog. Period. Call it what you want. I don't care. But you now know WHY prog IS prog.

 

[ElPredicador]

You know, I don't think virtuosity is a requisite for prog. I would replace that word with geniusosity(??)
Take for example, marillion. No musitian in that band is any sort of virtuoso, they just do what is needed in the context , so that music sounds great. They don't do blazing speed solos, or anything like that, and nonetheless it's great music.

 

[The Metal Chick]

I just read an interview in Guitar One magazine with Petrucci, Michael Wilton, and Jim Matheos, and they were asked for their definition of prog. The funny thing is, they couldn't come up with a solid definition any better than us. Petrucci said that Yes defines prog, as well as there is "a big emphasis on the instrumental part of it." Matheos thought it was mostly the musicianship as well as being progressive in the sense that they change each time. Wilton thought of it as just being different from "the pop format", such as weird time changes, and just being unique. So three of prog's top guitarists don't even agree. Prog is something that everyone takes differently.

 

[Polyeidus]

You know, I don't think virtuosity is a requisite for prog. I would replace that word with geniusosity(??)
Take for example, marillion. No musitian in that band is any sort of virtuoso, they just do what is needed in the context , so that music sounds great. They don't do blazing speed solos, or anything like that, and nonetheless it's great music.

Virtuosity meaning appreciation for, or an interest in art, not speed or abilty.

 

[ElPredicador]

then you should have used another word, because virtuosity may lead to misinterpretation, as it just happened