Did Venom really start black metal?

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The key tracks on Live In Leipzig and DMDS were mostly written in early 1990...
Source?

...Euronymous had developed as a musician and a songwriter to the point that he was able, around 1990, to move beyond his influences and flesh out a style that united several generations of previous metal.
So this pretty much comes down to you calling the period where the second wave was developing the "dormant period" rather than the "developmental period." Hardly common knowledge what you are proposing, I think that most see the early Norway scene as bridging the gap between Morbid Tales(etc.) and DMDS (a better theory, I think, than proposing Euronymous' sudden development as a musician/writer as the catalyst), ignoring that leaves a bit of a missing link that one could easily characterize as a "dormant period."

Could you outline the difference you perceive between Sodom-influenced "death metal" and Venom/Hellhammer/Bathory/Celtic Frost influenced "black metal", and why early Norway obviously falls into the former category? Given how Sodom is often considered at least peripheral to the first wave I find the dichotomy you express a tad elusive.
 
This psuedo-intellectual arguement is demented. Neither of you appear to be understanding the other clearly thus you continue to go around in circles. Perhaps try giving the overblown explanations a rest and cut to the chase.

Venom is Black metal and remains a relevant influence to newcomers. Obviously alot of people are likely to base their perceptions of Black Metal on the likes of Bathory, Mayhem, Burzum, Darkthrone etc. However, neither the existence NOR influence of those bands can render Venom impotent as a musical influence.

Regarding Bathory, as great as they are owe much to Venom (as Doden's clearly pointed out earlier) and even Manowar. Yes, Manowar - in 1983 when Bathory first got his act together, Manowar penned Gates of Valhalla. Bathory's Blood Fire Death was not to come for another five years. Gentlemen, put that in your pipe and smoke it :lol::p
 

Elementary deductive reasoning, my dear Watson. Mayhem spent much of 88/89 on semi-hiatus with Maniac out of the band, Dead intermittently busy with Morbid and Euronymous busy getting fucked up in Eastern Europe. None of the 1980s releases from the band (nor the extent live shows) include any of the post-Deathcrush tracks from Live In Leipzig, and the concert itself was recorded in late (November, I think) 1990. Taken with the slightly slower tempos than we find in later versions of the tracks and the slightly unsteady playing (the same is true of the performance recorded on Dawn of the Black Hearts), and it's clear that these were songs that the band hadn't practiced much as a band, which would indicate they were written shortly before hitting the road for the 1990 tour.

So this pretty much comes down to you calling the period where the second wave was developing the "dormant period" rather than the "developmental period."

What 'developmental' period? With the exception of Mayhem (and, if one is charitable, Thorns, although the early tracks never got beyond the instrumental stage), the second wave bands weren't even playing black metal AT ALL until 1991. That's when Varg recorded the first Burzum demos, when the first black metal recording from Immortal was made (the Immortal demo, from October of that year), and when Enslaved released their Nema demo and Darkthrone was busy writing and recording the songs that would become A Blaze in the Northern Sky. Prior to that point, none of these bands or their personnel were involved with black metal. They were all playing in straightforward, Swedish inspired death metal acts. There simply was no period of 'development.' In 1990, Mayhem was the only black metal band in Norway, by late 1991, most of what would become the Norwegian scene had made the switch from death metal to black metal. By early 1992, these bands were beginning to release their classic albums. We're talking about a span of like, 9 months here, not '3-5 years.'

Hardly common knowledge what you are proposing, I think that most see the early Norway scene as bridging the gap between Morbid Tales(etc.) and DMDS (a better theory, I think, than proposing Euronymous' sudden development as a musician/writer as the catalyst), ignoring that leaves a bit of a missing link that one could easily characterize as a "dormant period."

Could you outline the difference you perceive between Sodom-influenced "death metal"

The only overtly Sodom influenced band in the scene was early Mayhem, which obviously was a black metal band (though, at that point, not one making a meaningful contribution to the development of the genre). Everyone else in the Norwegian scene was busy with Swedish/Autopsy influenced death metal, which is fairly common knowledge. Have you really never heard say, Achieve the Mutilation or The Older Ones? 'Hellhammer influenced black metal' they ain't...
 
The ANUS forums are almost endlessly tolerant, and always have been. The only thing they don't tolerate is stuff that is just stupid. Intelligent, even disruptive opposition has always been encouraged. Moronic behavior, not so much.
 
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