Dissonant chords

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

He thought he made up his own scales, but he actually was just using harmonic and melodic minor most of the time and didn't know it.

Before I knew anything about music, all of my originals turned out to be based on the natural and melodic minor scales, with rampant key changes. In fact, I was much more proficient at changing keys before I knew what keys were than after I learned how to stay in key.

Music theory is useful.
You don't absolutely need it, but it'll help you not suck.
as for dissonance...try this:

A-----6
E-----2

or

A----7
E----2

That first one is a major sixth, which is consonant. For future reference, thirds, sixths and perfect fifths are the only three chord types that are considered to always be consonant.

The second one is a minor seventh, which is dissonant.

thats the augmented power chord I was talking about

No it's not, it's a diminished fifth, or an augemented fourth, depending on the context.

 

[razoredge]

No it's not, it's a diminished fifth, or an augemented fourth, depending on the context.

Just to clear things up

now your ??? someone would have to help me here but its either augmented or diminished power chord. In this particular key we are already going on would be 1st fret A string, 2nd fret D string, here I only use it and dont really know what it is, augmented if memory serves me and this is staying in key, which I dont always do.

So thanks, it appears it is both "according to context" and explains my confusion, but it is a power chord, 2 notes = power chord regardless the interval, some would want to disagree and say only the perfect 5th is a power chord, I say hogwash. Whats the proper theory term, they are not triads they are _ _ _ _ ?

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

Tritones, if you're talking about three-half-step intervals.

 

[Alcaline]

Just to clear things up


So thanks, it appears it is both "according to context" and explains my confusion, but it is a power chord, 2 notes = power chord regardless the interval, some would want to disagree and say only the perfect 5th is a power chord, I say hogwash. Whats the proper theory term, they are not triads they are _ _ _ _ ?

Dyads. (i.e. a chord of two notes) 5th chords are known as power chords (only by guitarists, mind you) because of the strong, consonant sound of a perfect 5th. The lack of any 3rd means it is neither major nor minor in sound and therefore focused and 'neutral'. All chords of two notes, including 'power chords' are known as dyads. The technically correct name would be [root name]5 e.g. E5, A5, D5 etc. ONLY DYADS WITH AN INTERVAL OF A PERFECT 5TH ARE CALLED 'POWER CHORDS'. All others are named depending on their interval (of which they inherently only have one).

Augmented 4ths and diminished 5ths are identified in the same way accidentals are named. If it is the 4th tone of a given key, it is some kind of 4th. If it is the 5th, then it is some kind of 5th.

There is faaaar too much wrong and mistaken information in this thread. If I were a novice I'd skip it entirely because it would be extremely confusing.

Tritones, if you're talking about three-half-step intervals.

Like THIS!! You'd think the name triTONE would give away the fact it has an interval of three TONES. That's SIX semitones! AAARRRGH!

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

You'd think the name triTONE would give away the fact it has an interval of three TONES. That's SIX semitones! AAARRRGH!

I looked this up on wikipedia and you're right. I've heard and seen the three-half-step interval referred to as a tritone many times and never bothered to look it up, but it seemed like an intuitive name, seeing as how I'm also accustomed to hearing the chromatic scale referred to as having twelve distinctive tones. I was also under the impression that a semitone was a fraction of a half-step.

By the way, what is the correct name for a three-half-step interval?

 

[cannibal corpse]

1 and a half step tone ? dunno

 

[Alcaline]

By the way, what is the correct name for a three-half-step interval?

Three half steps is a minor third.

It's a pretty basic concept to grasp once you start thinking in terms of intervals and not shapes on a guitar.

one half step = minor second
two half steps = major second
three half steps = minor third
four half steps = major third
five half steps = perfect fourth
six half steps = augmented fourth/diminished fifth (tritone)
seven half steps = perfect fifth
eight half steps = minor sixth
nine half steps = major sixth
ten half steps = minor seventh
eleven half steps = major seventh
twelve half steps = octave

Ways to think of the terminology:

minor - 'small'
major - 'big'
augmented - 'raised'
diminished - 'lowered'

I hope that helps.

 

[razoredge]

Dyads. (i.e. a chord of two notes) 5th chords are known as power chords (only by guitarists, mind you) because of the strong, consonant sound of a perfect 5th. The lack of any 3rd means it is neither major nor minor in sound and therefore focused and 'neutral'. All chords of two notes, including 'power chords' are known as dyads. The technically correct name would be [root name]5 e.g. E5, A5, D5 etc. ONLY DYADS WITH AN INTERVAL OF A PERFECT 5TH ARE CALLED 'POWER CHORDS'. All others are named depending on their interval (of which they inherently only have one).

Augmented 4ths and diminished 5ths are identified in the same way accidentals are named. If it is the 4th tone of a given key, it is some kind of 4th. If it is the 5th, then it is some kind of 5th.

There is faaaar too much wrong and mistaken information in this thread. If I were a novice I'd skip it entirely because it would be extremely confusing.



Like THIS!! You'd think the name triTONE would give away the fact it has an interval of three TONES. That's SIX semitones! AAARRRGH!

Dyads, thats what I thought but didnt want to say.

To me the term power chord is a loose, slang term in the first place. I reduce all dyads used for metal or hard rock to power chords, because they are a fraction of the chord, eliminating other notes/harmonies from the chord which makes them less "noisey" under distortion as well as easier to palm mute or pedal. Thereby in "my book" all are power chords. To simply put a perfect 5th only in the power chord department doesnt work for me because all those chords are reduced for the same purpose... power, clarity and to get to the point of the interval without all the other notes fogging it up. Anyone else can look at it however they please. Me, I have full chords and power chords.

I dont think there is all the bad information in here that you claim, I think there is plenty of good information. Im aware of how these chords are written for tab as you mentioned but didnt want to add that to the mix. Same as I didnt get into tonic, dominate, sub tonic, ect. Im not up on that as I once was anyhow.

the augmented and diminished thing still baffels me, even though I use them. I really should sit down with my chord charts and work the fret board over them until I get it. What good jazz players can do amazes me. Minor3rd flat5, 13ths, and such... I just dont get the best utilized improv over them

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

Three half steps is a minor third.

It's a pretty basic concept to grasp once you start thinking in terms of intervals and not shapes on a guitar.

one half step = minor second
two half steps = major second
three half steps = minor third
four half steps = major third
five half steps = perfect fourth
six half steps = augmented fourth/diminished fifth (tritone)
seven half steps = perfect fifth
eight half steps = minor sixth
nine half steps = major sixth
ten half steps = minor seventh
eleven half steps = major seventh
twelve half steps = octave

Ways to think of the terminology:

minor - 'small'
major - 'big'
augmented - 'raised'
diminished - 'lowered'

I hope that helps.

Sorry, that's not what I meant, I already know all of that. I'm wondering what it would be called with relevance to this type of scale notation.

Major: W W H W W W H

Minor: W H W W H W W

Harmonic Minor: W H W W H *3* H

As I mentioned before, I always assumed that each tone was one half-step, which would explain why the chromatic scale is so often referred to as the twelve tone scale. Consequently, I always abbreviated Harmonic Minor as: W H W W H T H

 

[Alcaline]

Sorry, that's not what I meant, I already know all of that. I'm wondering what it would be called with relevance to this type of scale notation.

Major: W W H W W W H

Minor: W H W W H W W

Harmonic Minor: W H W W H *3* H

As I mentioned before, I always assumed that each tone was one half-step, which would explain why the chromatic scale is so often referred to as the twelve tone scale. Consequently, I always abbreviated Harmonic Minor as: W H W W H T H

Then maybe if you asked that I might have answered it. All that is is an abbreviation of 'Whole' and 'Half' so you may abbreviate three semitones in any way you wish. WH would be best since it describes "whole and a half".

Razoredege, you are free to think any way you like and you can if you want, label any two note chord a power chord. However it will be mighty confusing when you come to explain it to somebody else, which is the whole point of music terminology. 5th chords are what we call power chords.

And no, there's a lot of bad information. There's not one correct post on the first page and the second mainly consists of squabbles over fret reach.

 

[razoredge]

Razoredege, you are free to think any way you like and you can if you want, label any two note chord a power chord. However it will be mighty confusing when you come to explain it to somebody else, which is the whole point of music terminology. 5th chords are what we call power chords.

And no, there's a lot of bad information. There's not one correct post on the first page and the second mainly consists of squabbles over fret reach.

simplistic's see the fifths as the only power chord and then think they are doing something important (which they are, advancing into the world of power chords) with a minor/major 3rd or various 6ths, 7th and the dim/aug power chord all based on the same principle. simplified cords for use in power music... that would be heavy metal and hard rock. You are suggesting what you intially advised against... thinking in fingering shapes.... "this one, and only this one shape is a power chord"... no its the "dominate" power chord consisting of a 5th and at times an octave. Sometimes its inverted. All dyads used in metal are for the soul purpose of "power". Think what ya'lls want.

I would like you to show me where my posts on the first page are incorrect, other than this "power chord" diversion. Others contained good infomation as well even though some were not very explicit, they still gave proper fingerings to look into.

 

[ParsonsMatt]

Alcaline knows what he's talking about. His posts are all spot on correct.

 

[Alcaline]

Razoredge, I don't want to pick apart your posts because I'm not feeling like a total jerk today. Be aware though that there is no such thing as a 'major' or 'minor' power chord. The very essence of a power chord is that it is neither major nor minor, it is 'neutral'. That is what gives it it's 'powerful' sound, especially when a perfect 5th is such a consonant interval. You can make up your own theories all day and thats fine but please be aware that this is the accepted definition.

I didn't say anything about finger shapes, theres a couple of ways you can play certain 5th chords. Not sure where you're coming from there.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

alcaline is right

 

[razoredge]

As were mine.

You cant pick apart my posts because the fingerings and intervals are accurate, therefore you should not have made an ass statement saying everything was wrong. We all are here in this thread to help a guy that asked a question, we all did the best we could. You showed up a week later and throw a blanket statement out there that everything was wrong and should be ignored, when it was not. The
"tritone" thing excaped me because I never heard its use until recently and to me only indicates a triad... use of three tones

Once again, "power chord" is an old slang term, in actual theory there is no such thing as a "power chord". Being slang in the first place, it can be applied to other intervals of reduced chords for their purposes in metal. I find the major 3rd and minor 3rd quite "powerful". Myself I dont use the word "power chord" when playing with others and going through our riffs, I did here in this topic because power chord was brought up and I always mused with its terminology in the first place. Power cords terminology was put into heavy use for METAL... and son of a gun if these metal players didnt also utilize other intervals amounst their two string chord pounding. To me your "power chord" has always been a perfect 5th with the occasional adding of the octave, or my favorite the inverted 5th which contains only one root and a dropped (inverted) 5th and the raised 5th... or both octaves of the root and of the 5th, but thats your power chord, I use many other segmented "power chords". I also use these chord in their entirety for other styles of music and/or appropriate application.

 

[razoredge]

"rightness" in the world of slang... imagine that

 

[Alcaline]

Urgh, I knew you'd say it's because I can't pick your posts apart. I didn't say all you said was wrong, however I did say every post contains wrong or mistaken information. And this is really not helpful to someone trying to understand since the information is only partially right. If you really want me to point them out to you then I will but hopefully I won't need to.

I respect you, Razoredge and I admire your spirited approach to metal music. I'm not one of those people who just goes around slamming everyone everytime they are wrong. Not all the time anyway.

However, just to clarify - A tritone is not a triad. It is an interval. It is called a tritone because it has an interval of three tones.

Yes, 'power chord' is not exactly in the classical musician's repertoire, but that's not to say it isn't a musical term without a specific meaning.

 

[razoredge]

However, just to clarify - A tritone is not a triad. It is an interval. It is called a tritone because it has an interval of three tones.

Which is what, three scale tones or three half steps ? I'm thinking its a term that doesnt need using, same as power chord

Urgh, I knew you'd say it's because I can't pick your posts apart. I didn't say all you said was wrong, however I did say every post contains wrong or mistaken information. And this is really not helpful to someone trying to understand since the information is only partially right. If you really want me to point them out to you then I will but hopefully I won't need to.

Of course I said it, you advised whoever to ignore everything that was stated when there is no reason to ignore it. The only discrepency in my posts is how one wants to view the term power chord, and I stated my borderline comprehension of aug/dim. Though I understand it better now and it should have been apparent to me as it is a b5 or #4. Thing that gets me about the #4 is chords are typically set up on the root, 3rd, 5th then maybe the 7th and 6th but the 4th seems to be this rare occurance. A 4th to me is a inverted 5th, I have never thought of the low note as the root in that case.

 

[Alcaline]

*head desk*

 

[ParsonsMatt]

"rightness" in the world of slang... imagine that

Just because something is slang doesn't mean it doesn't have a correct meaning. "Sup" is a greeting, "Later" is a farewell, and "Power chord" is a guitarist's term for a 5th interval. That is the understood meaning. If you want to include other chord shapes in that, feel free, but keep in mind that the vast consensus is against you, and in communicating musical ideas, appealing to the general consensus is the best option.

The
"tritone" thing excaped me because I never heard its use until recently and to me only indicates a triad... use of three tones

No offense but you don't know what you're talking about and you are making up your own definitions of musical terminology to fill in your ignorance. Defer your theory knowledge to those with training.