Do I smell a slow sellout in the works
- Thread starter Alteredmindeath
- Start date
diospada
Katatonic Opethean
no country for old wainds
Active Member
- Nov 23, 2002
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No. Shut the fuck up.
Do you even know what selling out is? No, it seems not.
Does it even matter if they do sell out, if their music is still brilliant? Fucking hell no.
@BlackParagon: Metal is only a lifestyle for those who are too insecure to define themselves in true and meaningful and unarbitrary ways. Your take on metalness seems to me reminiscent of high school, when identity was something that we thought we needed to cling to, in the face of a volatile social climate, rather than something that we need to self-reveal, through introspection.
You clearly have a great deal invested in the conception of yourself as One Who Is Metal, and this is fine, I would not normally have any problem with this, except that when you attempt to apply your arbitrary standards for self-perception to others, demeaning them and their appreciation for a certain style of music, you are out of line.
If your "new" metalheads are those who can appreciate the art form without getting caught up in the tedium of watching themselves appreciate the art form, then I am proud to count myself in their number.
'Metal' is an adjective, a descriptor of a certain type of sound, and it is hardly definable any longer. It should not be capitalized and rubbed in people's faces, and it should not be used to lend meaning to otherwise meaningless lives.
You clearly have a great deal invested in the conception of yourself as One Who Is Metal, and this is fine, I would not normally have any problem with this, except that when you attempt to apply your arbitrary standards for self-perception to others, demeaning them and their appreciation for a certain style of music, you are out of line.
If your "new" metalheads are those who can appreciate the art form without getting caught up in the tedium of watching themselves appreciate the art form, then I am proud to count myself in their number.
'Metal' is an adjective, a descriptor of a certain type of sound, and it is hardly definable any longer. It should not be capitalized and rubbed in people's faces, and it should not be used to lend meaning to otherwise meaningless lives.
no country for old wainds
Active Member
- Nov 23, 2002
- 26,593
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Superb post Fathomless. The most intelligent one in this thread so far. Your reputation shall be boosted.
The only thing I'd disagree with is "Your take on metalness seems to me reminiscent of high school, when identity was something that we thought we needed to cling to, in the face of a volatile social climate, rather than something that we need to self-reveal, through introspection."
I realised this when I was 13 (only a year ago), and most certainly in high school. Next time, use 'most of us' instead of 'we', to prevent generalising.
The only thing I'd disagree with is "Your take on metalness seems to me reminiscent of high school, when identity was something that we thought we needed to cling to, in the face of a volatile social climate, rather than something that we need to self-reveal, through introspection."
I realised this when I was 13 (only a year ago), and most certainly in high school. Next time, use 'most of us' instead of 'we', to prevent generalising.
IanDork107
I wrote a book! Buy it!
Fathomless said:
A-fuckin-men. I don't really have anything to add to your post, but goddamn, that made a lot of sense and it made Alteredmindeath and all the other fools look bad.
BlackParagon
in Miserable Bliss
Why are you so defensive about this Ditches? Have I once singled you out? No. That's twice now. What's up with that?
ditches
This Is The Face Of Love
BlackParagon said:
You were clearly referring to the back-and-forth we had on the "Opeth fans are the fucking best" thread.
Even if it wasn't singling me out you were still being a jackass
Kaberonie
PimpDaddyKABZ
Morningrise
...I am just thin air...
Yay! I have had quite a few comments on that avatar, when I used to have it. It came back up with UM hosting avatars again, and I think I will keep it for a bit. Classic game, too bad it is hard as hell to find anywhere!Oh and btw, Morningrise, NICE FUCKING AVATAR! Castlevania: Symphony of the Night is the best 2d-action game ever... EVER! Alucard is fucking awesome! I must've played that game over a dozen times, I know where every secret is, and once I get the Chrissaegrim... it's all over.
BlackParagon
in Miserable Bliss
or If you don't care don't waste your time reading this jibberish.
...What I'm saying is that there is no "identity to cling to". Clinging to an identity makes you a poser. You totally read what I wrote completely the wrong way. I made it very obvious in my post that I have a problem with the people you are describing as me. You seem to be very intelligent. Probably too much so for your own good. Why not ask for clarification before making assumptions? Does your brain work at such a high speed that it automatically fills the gaps? Kick back. You've obviously had some conflicts with the type of person you described for you to project this part of your ego on to me. I just re-read my post. What is your point? Are you trying to rally disgust towards me based on something I agree with you upon, and which I even stated in my last post? Not to fully justify it, but my stance was clearly in agreement with yours. Did you actually finish reading that post?
I'm not trying to fight over this, but if you're going to nail me on something, especially something you call "out of line" then it would be nice if you'd actually find something to nail me for. And I must say, your pointing out to me the definition of metal in an attempt to prove that no other definition can exist is ridiculous. With that mentality language would never have evolved. Do you think language is set in stone and does not grow? Besides, my use of the word is CLEARLY slang. Oh, I can see you'd probably get a better grade in an English course than I would (maybe, who knows what references are being used), but don't attack my intelligence with such empty argumentation. Make me think. That's all I ask. The most intelligent post on the thread? Why because you use big words? Seriously, you must be able to see your error and not get offended. I liked Ditches retort much more. Alright. Can we drop that now? Now I'm going to write for two hours in an attempt to fully clean up this mess. Though highly doubt that's possible because some people cannot stand the idea of not arguing. Right now someone is taking that personally. Why?
Look you're either Metal (and I'm capitalizing the letter M in order to clearly delineate the difference between the music and the mentality (and I'm not talking about a lifestyle. Rather I'm talking about the lack thereof which in a sense is a lifestyle in and of itself (you can't escape the fact that a lifestyle will be lead, fucking duality))) or your not. Big fucking deal. I'm just sick of people barking about how Metal they are.
I haven't even said that I'm Metal. I'm mainly talking about all the fuckers I come across where I live that claim this shit and they "cling" to it and are constantly trying to prove "how metal they are" (most specifically the SoCal BM scene (it's so fucking kvlt(or something like that))). Even when I was playing Death Grind a year ago I'd wear whatever the fuck I wanted to. Like a Quicksilver short sleeve button up. I'll wear what's comfortable. BUT... there are these "new" Metalheads who will think that I'm not metal because I don't exclusively wear black and wear nothing but band shirts. I gave that up in High School (though I only had a napalm death shirt in high school). Oh, and if I do not exclusively listen to Metal, I'm not metal.
I'm also talking about the Black Metal-ers out there who are so Metal that they can't even leave their homes. I guess the word Metal just has different meaning amongst my circle. I like to fuck around very dryly. Most people I know do too. Both times I've been ripped on have been times in which I've either been joking because someone totally left their self wide open for it (by the way, I do that to my friends too), or someone said something about Opeth that was beyond stupid.
I defend Opeth. But I'm the jackass. I guess it doesn't matter what I say, because you who choose to come down on me have already formed strong unalterable opinions about me. You just don't understand what I'm talking about. If we were hanging and I said some of the shit that I said this scenario wouldn't be taking place because hopefully you'd pick up on the energy behind the words. Out of all the posts I've read on this thread I see that my point was not made well. I don't feel like further explaining what metal is to me, because none of you even know who I'm talking about and your mistaking my angle on the matter. And to keep talking about it isn't Metal. But I'll do it anyway. I plan on writing for the next hour or so. I just thought maybe somebody out there noticed how stylish metal has become.
Metal to me means pretty much, not giving a fuck. A "whatever" mindset. I know now that I should have kept alot of the shit I originally wrote in the post. I just saw it becoming too complicated. But I should have at least mentioned that I realize by going on that tyrade I'm not being very Metal. I normally don't, but after reading a couple of the recent threads I just felt somebody had to say something. This is the Opeth forum. I consider Opeth to be one of the most Metal bands out there. Mike was in Kerang magazine playing with his cat. How fucking metal! He doesn't give a fuck. But seeing all these people so wrapped up in him and the rest of the guys practically borders on worship. And that's pretty much a follower mentality. And followers aren't Metal (IMO (I'll make this clear from now on)).
Here's a little story for you. This one dude I know asked me to play guitar in his Death/Grind band a year ago. It was cool for a day but then I noticed just how overly sensitive, annoying, uppity, and anal the guy was. Not to mention creepy and weak-minded. Aside from that the music he was playing was just an obvious over-compensation for something he was insecure about. He isn't even good at that fast shit. He can play fast as hell (240 BPM's), but so what. What's so great about that alone? Everything he does is just chop-chop all over the fretboard. I ended up throwing in all kinds of melody and complex time signatures and what not till it got to the point that he couldn't play with me. Or rather, it was the other way around.
My point is it makes you wonder why he keeps doing it when he has no future in it. Derek from Decrepit Birth was over at his house one day because he was considering playing bass for us. He had already heard MY abilities, but he quickly came to the realization that this other guy sucked. Both myself and Derek recommended that he try playing with a click track set at about 60 BPM's for about six months. So, why is he jumping into stuff he can't do and getting other's who are much too good to be playing with him to join his band (just based on his ability to b.s. and sell himself)?
I know the reason. We all do (those that know him anyway). Every time I've hung out with this guy and we're hanging with the dudes from Deeds of Flesh, Phobia, Disgorge, Noctuary, Fecal Vomit, Winterthrall, etc... We all give each other these sideways glances while he's talking because we can't believe this guy and how he tries so damn hard to gain approval. But we accept him anyway. I've never met a dude that is so accepted by so many notable people in the metal scene, and I'm talking about (and I'm not naming names) guys from My Dying Bride, Cradle of Filth, Bal-Sagoth, Sigh, Emperor, Green Carnation, to name a few.
I'm making a point with the name dropping. Besides the fact that he constantly throws these names and his ties to the bands out at you in conversation, even (and in most cases) when it doesn't even fit contextually, the point is how is it that he can call all these guys friends even though they talk about him behind his back like I'm doing now? It's because we feel sorry for him. Most metalheads I know are full of compassion. Maybe too much. A common statement I've heard about him is "he means well". It seems that we could be hurting him by feeding this need he has to fit in. Maybe it's time for some tough love. Some of us are always giving him advice and telling him to just be himself. And we're just so nice.
He's not the only one, but he's one of the better examples. It's starting to get to me though. I've been feeling as though maybe we should not be so kind, for their sake. Those who I speak of are trying, actually putting effort into fitting in with metalheads, and it's just so unnecessary. When I say "new" Metalheads I'm pretty much talking about those who latch on to metal because it is starting to become stylish (around my parts, in my opinion). And normally I would feel no contempt. It's not like I'm covetous of metal. Honestly. But the last couple of days though... certain things I read began to seem to myself and a few others a bit like the beginnings of a Britney Spears fan club. That's when I just couldn't help but type "this is not Metal!!!!".
But then I get bombarded with all this criticism and projections about what Metal means to me. It's still happening. I didn't explain what Metal means to me in my post, contrary to about two or three opinions. I approached it simply on a surface level and then you two or three read into it and were so convinced that you knew what I meant that you actually lectured me directly where as I was speaking about nobody in particular. I do find that interesting. I mean seriously, I left it vague intentionally for the sole purpose of basically letting the guilty know who they are, and leaving it at that. If not guilty, then why the fuck care? Because your assumptions about who I am (specifically) didn't mesh with your worldview? Why should what I say offend?
Now, about the guy who posted that worry of his about Opeth selling out, well that's a different story. The reason it brought up my new found anger over this new trend I'm seeing is because it seems to me that since Opeth is the epitome of Metal (IMO), that if you yourself were Metal you'd understand Opeth (IMO), and if you understand Opeth you'd know that they wouldn't "sell out"(fact). My fatal error was in the fact that the word metal can mean many things to many different people. I meant not giving a fuck (not in an angst filled way, but in a wiser accepting way), going with the flow, LOVING music (any music), being self-confident, having a healthy lack of fear, a lone wolf mentality, and a certain amount of bluntness in speech. That to me is Metal. And that is my opinion.
The word is relative, to an extent because to say the Backstreet Boys are Metal would be ludicrous. Which implies that a definition does exist on a non-relativistic level. Though I'd say it is just not a black and white definition. All of my friends fit this description too, so it's not something I've just created to fit my own personality. It probably isn't a word used in this manner for most of you. Umm, I wasn't aware of that. I seperate that from the music called metal.
For example, when I saw Morbid Angel at the House of Blues with Motorhead headlining I gained a new respect for Motorhead because at one point in their set the drummer went off on a very long solo. Then Lemmy and the guitar player (sorry, don't know their names. I'm not a fan) walked off the stage for around five minutes. As the solo was nearing the end they walked back on the stage with beers and cigarettes. They picked up their instruments, the drummer threw his sticks in the air, caught them and they began playing. I said "now that's fucking Metal". And so did two other people in my general vicinity. It wasn't just something in MY head as some of you would like to point out. And it wasn't the music itself.
It's hard to put your finger on it. You just know. When Mike was singing "losing sleep..." right before the Morbid Angel like outro on A Fair Judgement at the Troubadour, and what seemed like the entire crowd was singing along I felt that that was Metal (with a capital M because obviously it's the style of music called metal (now that I think about it, it would be rather wasteful and idiotic to not capitalize the M. Why NOT do it? So that those who are insecure and think everyone is rubbing their noses in something don't get offended? What other reason would there be). I don't see it as some constant, like if you act a certain premeditated way, or dress a certain way that it is Metal. I don't think of myself AS Metal. But perhaps some of the things I do, or say, or write are. I don't know. I don't decide this. It's not for me to decide. If I decided that, I wouldn't be Metal. This state of being Metal that I speak of has no room for self-absorption.
I regret having stepped outside of my normal persona thus sacrificing my integrity to an extent in order to point out something that fell on deaf ears. I thought it was obvious. I'll be honest, I think some of you spend more time focusing on the words you read in these posts than what is in between them. Too many of you seem to come from a background planted possibly too firmly in logic. And I think it hinders your ability to understand abstract humor. Word for word it seems like some cruel attack. For some reason I got this kind of Opeth fan=friend feeling a while back. So I registered, even though I hate message boards. But I thought this would be different.
So, I end up being a sarcastic, cynical, dry, confrontational bastard. I'm used to people returning the favor in a similar manner. That is my friends anyway. It's fun and humorous. Notice how there is not an ounce of color in this post? Seriously, I can't fuck around anymore. Like I said in my last post, I don't like having to explain myself. BTW, what I meant by that was this: I was going on this big fucking tyrannical spiel about new metalheads to draw them out. And I don't mean literally "new" metalheads. I meant a new breed. I meant those who are drawn to it because it is stylish. It was anything but stylish when I was in high school. It seemed to me that the only people that would respond would be those who felt attacked, thus proving my point that these people exist. My ardent hope was that nobody would respond. And by the way, Ditches: what I said wasn't really about YOU. You seem like a good-natured individual and I wish you no ill-will bro. It was about the whole scenario. Wow, I've never been called a jackass before. It'll take some getting used to I suppose.
Plus, I deleted all my posts because dude, if my humor is going to be misinterpreted I don't want it to be read. It's meant to make you laugh, not scowl. It wasn't some tantrum. I tell jokes for other people, not for myself. And if my humor is hard to decipher, sorry. I grew up watching Monty Python, and most recently Upright Citizens Brigade, Mr. Show, Strangers With Candy, the Vacant Lot, and the State. The humor is very very out there. It's hard to grasp until you understand where it comes from. I did not realize it was so hard to decipher. Apparently joking with people in person as opposed to on the internet is probably something I should stick to. But, when I get stoned (which isn't very often) I suppose I can get a little carried away. As you've seen.
I'm sure somebody is now going to say that I'm not Metal because I care enough to apologize and explain myself so as not to create another wake of confusion. I don't care. I wasn't trying to make a case for my being Metal anyway. Do whatever you want guys, girls. I'll keep my jokes to myself and my friends. If I happen across a troll though, I'll probably have to unleash. It's nice when somebody gets it. Cool thing about abstract humor is that when you do get it, it's that much funnier due to the effort. I even think that humor with no punchline is fucking hilarious. It's very doubtful that anyone here gets that shit. So you see, there's no point in trying to be funny. Okay, two hours is up. Oh, and this whole thing was like my last joke for a while. Though I was actually serious within the context of the joke. That's why it's funny to myself and four of my bro's and two of my lady friends (the rest don't get it either, so it's cool (I'm not trying to rub your noses in something by mentioning that, but two hours actually wasn't up)).
...What I'm saying is that there is no "identity to cling to". Clinging to an identity makes you a poser. You totally read what I wrote completely the wrong way. I made it very obvious in my post that I have a problem with the people you are describing as me. You seem to be very intelligent. Probably too much so for your own good. Why not ask for clarification before making assumptions? Does your brain work at such a high speed that it automatically fills the gaps? Kick back. You've obviously had some conflicts with the type of person you described for you to project this part of your ego on to me. I just re-read my post. What is your point? Are you trying to rally disgust towards me based on something I agree with you upon, and which I even stated in my last post? Not to fully justify it, but my stance was clearly in agreement with yours. Did you actually finish reading that post?
I'm not trying to fight over this, but if you're going to nail me on something, especially something you call "out of line" then it would be nice if you'd actually find something to nail me for. And I must say, your pointing out to me the definition of metal in an attempt to prove that no other definition can exist is ridiculous. With that mentality language would never have evolved. Do you think language is set in stone and does not grow? Besides, my use of the word is CLEARLY slang. Oh, I can see you'd probably get a better grade in an English course than I would (maybe, who knows what references are being used), but don't attack my intelligence with such empty argumentation. Make me think. That's all I ask. The most intelligent post on the thread? Why because you use big words? Seriously, you must be able to see your error and not get offended. I liked Ditches retort much more. Alright. Can we drop that now? Now I'm going to write for two hours in an attempt to fully clean up this mess. Though highly doubt that's possible because some people cannot stand the idea of not arguing. Right now someone is taking that personally. Why?
Look you're either Metal (and I'm capitalizing the letter M in order to clearly delineate the difference between the music and the mentality (and I'm not talking about a lifestyle. Rather I'm talking about the lack thereof which in a sense is a lifestyle in and of itself (you can't escape the fact that a lifestyle will be lead, fucking duality))) or your not. Big fucking deal. I'm just sick of people barking about how Metal they are.
I haven't even said that I'm Metal. I'm mainly talking about all the fuckers I come across where I live that claim this shit and they "cling" to it and are constantly trying to prove "how metal they are" (most specifically the SoCal BM scene (it's so fucking kvlt(or something like that))). Even when I was playing Death Grind a year ago I'd wear whatever the fuck I wanted to. Like a Quicksilver short sleeve button up. I'll wear what's comfortable. BUT... there are these "new" Metalheads who will think that I'm not metal because I don't exclusively wear black and wear nothing but band shirts. I gave that up in High School (though I only had a napalm death shirt in high school). Oh, and if I do not exclusively listen to Metal, I'm not metal.
I'm also talking about the Black Metal-ers out there who are so Metal that they can't even leave their homes. I guess the word Metal just has different meaning amongst my circle. I like to fuck around very dryly. Most people I know do too. Both times I've been ripped on have been times in which I've either been joking because someone totally left their self wide open for it (by the way, I do that to my friends too), or someone said something about Opeth that was beyond stupid.
I defend Opeth. But I'm the jackass. I guess it doesn't matter what I say, because you who choose to come down on me have already formed strong unalterable opinions about me. You just don't understand what I'm talking about. If we were hanging and I said some of the shit that I said this scenario wouldn't be taking place because hopefully you'd pick up on the energy behind the words. Out of all the posts I've read on this thread I see that my point was not made well. I don't feel like further explaining what metal is to me, because none of you even know who I'm talking about and your mistaking my angle on the matter. And to keep talking about it isn't Metal. But I'll do it anyway. I plan on writing for the next hour or so. I just thought maybe somebody out there noticed how stylish metal has become.
Metal to me means pretty much, not giving a fuck. A "whatever" mindset. I know now that I should have kept alot of the shit I originally wrote in the post. I just saw it becoming too complicated. But I should have at least mentioned that I realize by going on that tyrade I'm not being very Metal. I normally don't, but after reading a couple of the recent threads I just felt somebody had to say something. This is the Opeth forum. I consider Opeth to be one of the most Metal bands out there. Mike was in Kerang magazine playing with his cat. How fucking metal! He doesn't give a fuck. But seeing all these people so wrapped up in him and the rest of the guys practically borders on worship. And that's pretty much a follower mentality. And followers aren't Metal (IMO (I'll make this clear from now on)).
Here's a little story for you. This one dude I know asked me to play guitar in his Death/Grind band a year ago. It was cool for a day but then I noticed just how overly sensitive, annoying, uppity, and anal the guy was. Not to mention creepy and weak-minded. Aside from that the music he was playing was just an obvious over-compensation for something he was insecure about. He isn't even good at that fast shit. He can play fast as hell (240 BPM's), but so what. What's so great about that alone? Everything he does is just chop-chop all over the fretboard. I ended up throwing in all kinds of melody and complex time signatures and what not till it got to the point that he couldn't play with me. Or rather, it was the other way around.
My point is it makes you wonder why he keeps doing it when he has no future in it. Derek from Decrepit Birth was over at his house one day because he was considering playing bass for us. He had already heard MY abilities, but he quickly came to the realization that this other guy sucked. Both myself and Derek recommended that he try playing with a click track set at about 60 BPM's for about six months. So, why is he jumping into stuff he can't do and getting other's who are much too good to be playing with him to join his band (just based on his ability to b.s. and sell himself)?
I know the reason. We all do (those that know him anyway). Every time I've hung out with this guy and we're hanging with the dudes from Deeds of Flesh, Phobia, Disgorge, Noctuary, Fecal Vomit, Winterthrall, etc... We all give each other these sideways glances while he's talking because we can't believe this guy and how he tries so damn hard to gain approval. But we accept him anyway. I've never met a dude that is so accepted by so many notable people in the metal scene, and I'm talking about (and I'm not naming names) guys from My Dying Bride, Cradle of Filth, Bal-Sagoth, Sigh, Emperor, Green Carnation, to name a few.
I'm making a point with the name dropping. Besides the fact that he constantly throws these names and his ties to the bands out at you in conversation, even (and in most cases) when it doesn't even fit contextually, the point is how is it that he can call all these guys friends even though they talk about him behind his back like I'm doing now? It's because we feel sorry for him. Most metalheads I know are full of compassion. Maybe too much. A common statement I've heard about him is "he means well". It seems that we could be hurting him by feeding this need he has to fit in. Maybe it's time for some tough love. Some of us are always giving him advice and telling him to just be himself. And we're just so nice.
He's not the only one, but he's one of the better examples. It's starting to get to me though. I've been feeling as though maybe we should not be so kind, for their sake. Those who I speak of are trying, actually putting effort into fitting in with metalheads, and it's just so unnecessary. When I say "new" Metalheads I'm pretty much talking about those who latch on to metal because it is starting to become stylish (around my parts, in my opinion). And normally I would feel no contempt. It's not like I'm covetous of metal. Honestly. But the last couple of days though... certain things I read began to seem to myself and a few others a bit like the beginnings of a Britney Spears fan club. That's when I just couldn't help but type "this is not Metal!!!!".
But then I get bombarded with all this criticism and projections about what Metal means to me. It's still happening. I didn't explain what Metal means to me in my post, contrary to about two or three opinions. I approached it simply on a surface level and then you two or three read into it and were so convinced that you knew what I meant that you actually lectured me directly where as I was speaking about nobody in particular. I do find that interesting. I mean seriously, I left it vague intentionally for the sole purpose of basically letting the guilty know who they are, and leaving it at that. If not guilty, then why the fuck care? Because your assumptions about who I am (specifically) didn't mesh with your worldview? Why should what I say offend?
Now, about the guy who posted that worry of his about Opeth selling out, well that's a different story. The reason it brought up my new found anger over this new trend I'm seeing is because it seems to me that since Opeth is the epitome of Metal (IMO), that if you yourself were Metal you'd understand Opeth (IMO), and if you understand Opeth you'd know that they wouldn't "sell out"(fact). My fatal error was in the fact that the word metal can mean many things to many different people. I meant not giving a fuck (not in an angst filled way, but in a wiser accepting way), going with the flow, LOVING music (any music), being self-confident, having a healthy lack of fear, a lone wolf mentality, and a certain amount of bluntness in speech. That to me is Metal. And that is my opinion.
The word is relative, to an extent because to say the Backstreet Boys are Metal would be ludicrous. Which implies that a definition does exist on a non-relativistic level. Though I'd say it is just not a black and white definition. All of my friends fit this description too, so it's not something I've just created to fit my own personality. It probably isn't a word used in this manner for most of you. Umm, I wasn't aware of that. I seperate that from the music called metal.
For example, when I saw Morbid Angel at the House of Blues with Motorhead headlining I gained a new respect for Motorhead because at one point in their set the drummer went off on a very long solo. Then Lemmy and the guitar player (sorry, don't know their names. I'm not a fan) walked off the stage for around five minutes. As the solo was nearing the end they walked back on the stage with beers and cigarettes. They picked up their instruments, the drummer threw his sticks in the air, caught them and they began playing. I said "now that's fucking Metal". And so did two other people in my general vicinity. It wasn't just something in MY head as some of you would like to point out. And it wasn't the music itself.
It's hard to put your finger on it. You just know. When Mike was singing "losing sleep..." right before the Morbid Angel like outro on A Fair Judgement at the Troubadour, and what seemed like the entire crowd was singing along I felt that that was Metal (with a capital M because obviously it's the style of music called metal (now that I think about it, it would be rather wasteful and idiotic to not capitalize the M. Why NOT do it? So that those who are insecure and think everyone is rubbing their noses in something don't get offended? What other reason would there be). I don't see it as some constant, like if you act a certain premeditated way, or dress a certain way that it is Metal. I don't think of myself AS Metal. But perhaps some of the things I do, or say, or write are. I don't know. I don't decide this. It's not for me to decide. If I decided that, I wouldn't be Metal. This state of being Metal that I speak of has no room for self-absorption.
I regret having stepped outside of my normal persona thus sacrificing my integrity to an extent in order to point out something that fell on deaf ears. I thought it was obvious. I'll be honest, I think some of you spend more time focusing on the words you read in these posts than what is in between them. Too many of you seem to come from a background planted possibly too firmly in logic. And I think it hinders your ability to understand abstract humor. Word for word it seems like some cruel attack. For some reason I got this kind of Opeth fan=friend feeling a while back. So I registered, even though I hate message boards. But I thought this would be different.
So, I end up being a sarcastic, cynical, dry, confrontational bastard. I'm used to people returning the favor in a similar manner. That is my friends anyway. It's fun and humorous. Notice how there is not an ounce of color in this post? Seriously, I can't fuck around anymore. Like I said in my last post, I don't like having to explain myself. BTW, what I meant by that was this: I was going on this big fucking tyrannical spiel about new metalheads to draw them out. And I don't mean literally "new" metalheads. I meant a new breed. I meant those who are drawn to it because it is stylish. It was anything but stylish when I was in high school. It seemed to me that the only people that would respond would be those who felt attacked, thus proving my point that these people exist. My ardent hope was that nobody would respond. And by the way, Ditches: what I said wasn't really about YOU. You seem like a good-natured individual and I wish you no ill-will bro. It was about the whole scenario. Wow, I've never been called a jackass before. It'll take some getting used to I suppose.
Plus, I deleted all my posts because dude, if my humor is going to be misinterpreted I don't want it to be read. It's meant to make you laugh, not scowl. It wasn't some tantrum. I tell jokes for other people, not for myself. And if my humor is hard to decipher, sorry. I grew up watching Monty Python, and most recently Upright Citizens Brigade, Mr. Show, Strangers With Candy, the Vacant Lot, and the State. The humor is very very out there. It's hard to grasp until you understand where it comes from. I did not realize it was so hard to decipher. Apparently joking with people in person as opposed to on the internet is probably something I should stick to. But, when I get stoned (which isn't very often) I suppose I can get a little carried away. As you've seen.
I'm sure somebody is now going to say that I'm not Metal because I care enough to apologize and explain myself so as not to create another wake of confusion. I don't care. I wasn't trying to make a case for my being Metal anyway. Do whatever you want guys, girls. I'll keep my jokes to myself and my friends. If I happen across a troll though, I'll probably have to unleash. It's nice when somebody gets it. Cool thing about abstract humor is that when you do get it, it's that much funnier due to the effort. I even think that humor with no punchline is fucking hilarious. It's very doubtful that anyone here gets that shit. So you see, there's no point in trying to be funny. Okay, two hours is up. Oh, and this whole thing was like my last joke for a while. Though I was actually serious within the context of the joke. That's why it's funny to myself and four of my bro's and two of my lady friends (the rest don't get it either, so it's cool (I'm not trying to rub your noses in something by mentioning that, but two hours actually wasn't up)).
BlackParagon
in Miserable Bliss
diospada
Katatonic Opethean
ditches
This Is The Face Of Love
BlackParagon said:holy shit!
...I'll second that.
I can understand where you're coming from, though of course insert the obvious "you're taking this too seriously by writing a 2,000 word essay on it" jab. I think that had you done THAT post first it would have prevented all the confusion.
Here's a simpler way to express it: Metal isn't about the men or the clothes, it's about the music. An N'Sync groupie will go on and on about Justin Timberlake and his personal life because *he* is what's important, and the music is superfluous. They don't care if he has anything to do with it beyond singing and dancing. I don't care who Mikael is romantically linked with, or what hair care products the band uses. Neither does anybody else on the board. We care about the music they're producing, and respect it.
If the focus becomes the band as individuals, that's where egos get born. Image-consciousness, etc. That's why pop music is doomed to mediocrity, because the focus is on the current set of attractive "idols", where Metal is focused on the current set of high-end bands. THAT is why Opeth is growing in popularity; as more people are exposed, more people are drawn to the undeniable quality.
And as you point out, when fans are concerned with how each other looks, that's not Metal either. I couldn't look less "metal" if I tried (short blonde hair), while Shadowthrone is very much the stereotype (long hair, band shirts). Both of us dress like we do because that's what we like, and if someone at a concert were to mock me for not looking "metal" I would have to beat him down for being a prick.
Me, I'm not worried. People like you described will get summarily beat down in this forum and/or ignored.
...uh....yeah....
I could be a real bastard by quoting that essay and responding with a smilie such as
That would be great. But I won't do it.
I could be a real bastard by quoting that essay and responding with a smilie such as
That would be great. But I won't do it.
seventi
Viva Lonliness!
It better be 14th of April now, because now I've had two dreams in row about Damnation and how the music sounds :zombie:
Static
Manically depressed robot
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Wow... multiply the length of that essay by about 5 and then you have the post that was on the RavenShield forums a few days back...
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