Does God exist?

[BlackMetalTyrant]

I think something unexplainable by science created the universe, but if there is some sort of god, he has nothing to do with what happens on earth. The proof is the same things happen to non believers as believers so the believers are wasting their time.

 

[Inchoate]

and you could very easily turn that blockheaded argument around on itself, and say just as confidently that the non-believers are wasting their time.

An argument that God doesn't exist because non-believers don't see him is just as stupid as claiming that your racial category doesn't have any bearing on your overall intelligence, or lack thereof.

 

[BlackMetalTyrant]

Why bring race up? The thing about god was my opinion.

 

[swizzlenuts]

I had a conversation with a buddhist... which summed it up for me. She said people in the world want something better than this world... If they think having good "morals".... will take them to a better place like "heaven" then they will do it. People don't want to rot in the ground... All they have is hope... nothing else.

I kind of relate jesus with buddha, except jesus went a little far and made up shit to "prove" what he was saying. buddha just has a philosophy, but jesus wanted everyone to believe what he had.... when jesus wasn't in the bible from 18-33 (dont quote me), i believe he traveled the world... and scoped out all of the religions, and made his own. Then we people were tired of him makeing up bullshit... he was killed, but.... since jesus was a smart man... he came up that he was dieing for us...

I also can't get past alll of the religions... for a while i thought "god" was allah, buddha, and brahma, but now my thoughts have taken me this way. First i was raised in an all catholic family, in a catholic school. So ive always been told that if you dont accept jesus' teachings then you go to hell... then if god is all loving and all caring why would he make perfectly "moral" Muslums, Hindu's, and Buddhists go to hell? they are good people like what the "perfect" catholics are.... so i came to the conclusion... and also reading the bible and random articles that... if there is something out there it could be force... so why the hell should we believe that the force is a god or creator... the force to me is mother nature.... why the hell else would we have huge natural disasters.... mother nature doesn't care... we are ruining the earth..... and she is "mother" nature insted of father... because women are the stronger race and control everything more than men....

thats why im agnostic.... no religion.... only philosophy on how to live your live... which i don't follow much because figuring it out on my own is a much better way to live...

 

[Kenneth R.]

everyone thinks....that their way is the best..... way....to live.....

 

[dreaming neon darkspot]

everyone thinks....that their way is the best..... way....to live.....

yeah, otherwise why would they think it? The only problem - the reason why this question is even asked - is because some of them try to make other people believe in their way as well ... I think a better question to ask is why do you think your religion/religious beliefs are best. Actually, that'd make a really amusing game show... Every week, different branches/fringe groups of every religion compete in physical challenges, brain-teasing questions, and by eating repulsive animals/animal parts to see whose religion can be the biggest and best for that week.

 

[Kenneth R.]

reality television is about as unrealistic as life can get.

i think everyone should ask themselves "why do i believe in this?" and "why do i disbelieve in those others?". these questions are important for one to be aware of their grounds for believing in anything, and not just blindly following. i didn't invent Christianity, so i would argue that it isn't even "my" way, i have come to believe that my way should be this way, and attempt to adapt.

 

[Iridium]

claims are one thing, actions are another. you will know by their actions, not their words.

Did you just grant me the license to judge which Christians are "true" and which are not? In either case, you have committed the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

why would you call yourself such if you aren't? to mislead, of course. intentionally or not.

If you are doing something in order to mislead, you are doing it purposefully - you can't do something with the intent of misleading unintentionally. Further, why would someone want to mislead me about their faith when they are, in fact, arguing with me about it? To make the rest of you Christians look bad, no doubt?

you still don't see the point of the paragraph. it means generally what i said it does... your charges are unfounded

You have not addressed my charges. I provided a short, in my opinion rational explanation of the passage. You provided a poorly-construed paragraph of rambling and made no real point. Now, I charge you: explain away your case.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Did you just grant me the license to judge which Christians are "true" and which are not? In either case, you have committed the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

If you are doing something in order to mislead, you are doing it purposefully - you can't do something with the intent of misleading unintentionally. Further, why would someone want to mislead me about their faith when they are, in fact, arguing with me about it? To make the rest of you Christians look bad, no doubt?

You have not addressed my charges. I provided a short, in my opinion rational explanation of the passage. You provided a poorly-construed paragraph of rambling and made no real point. Now, I charge you: explain away your case.

1. i am stating the obvious. "actions speak louder than words". i could call myself an atheist, but if i do God's work, you would know that i am not. and vice versa.

2. intent to mislead is purposeful to slander or damage the reputation and goals of the group misrepresented. unintentional stems from ignorance. spreading incorrect information and ideals, false testimony, though without knowledge of misrepresentation. this is what i meant.

3. i already explained the point of that quote twice. your explanation was short indeed, but the easy path is not always correct. here again for the 3rd time: "walk by faith" means to travel by faith, that is, to do all you do in conscious understanding of how it relates to your beliefs and act (walk) accordingly. it also means to trust God and his way rather than our own, imperfect senses. to walk by faith and not by eyes is to walk with trust, and trust is a synonym to faith. trust in ourselves, in our faith, in each other, and in God. the word "walk" is used, and not "live", because one can live standing still. instead, we are told to walk, to move forward, to act and be active in the ways of faith. the word "by" is used to signify the importance of the word "faith" as the singular source by which to "walk". further, it means to see with one's heart/feelings instead of one's eyes, to see beyond what is in plain sight. to see meaning instead of objects. to close one's eyes to this visible world and its meager trivial posessions. it is a phrase that simultaneously signifies these ideologies of Christianity, as taught and shown by Jesus.

if you want to read the phrase "walk by faith" and claim it means simply to close your eyes and walk blinded, then perhaps you are right in the sense of the final point i made above, but it is much more than that. you're entitled to your interpretation, but i see it as incomplete.

 

[Silver Incubus]

3. i already explained the point of that quote twice. your explanation was short indeed, but the easy path is not always correct. here again for the 3rd time: "walk by faith" means to travel by faith, that is, to do all you do in conscious understanding of how it relates to your beliefs and act (walk) accordingly. it also means to trust God and his way rather than our own, imperfect senses. to walk by faith and not by eyes is to walk with trust, and trust is a synonym to faith. trust in ourselves, in our faith, in each other, and in God. the word "walk" is used, and not "live", because one can live standing still. instead, we are told to walk, to move forward, to act and be active in the ways of faith. the word "by" is used to signify the importance of the word "faith" as the singular source by which to "walk". further, it means to see with one's heart/feelings instead of one's eyes, to see beyond what is in plain sight. to see meaning instead of objects. to close one's eyes to this visible world and its meager trivial posessions. it is a phrase that simultaneously signifies these ideologies of Christianity, as taught and shown by Jesus.

Don't worry I completely understand this last paragraph, but I am not a christian because simply I could not limit myself to 1 set of believes as I believe that as I am a living and constantly changing being, my beliefs should be as well. But I know what walking the path is because I do walk the path. AND that is why I do not bellieve in free will. Because I see that we have a path to take which will take us in to the places and meet the people we need to. The only place that free will actually exists is in your mind, and how you learn and precieve the world is the only thing you have control over it. But the oddest thing about the path is that it is never straight in time, but it only moves forward as you learn your lessons.

 

[Kenneth R.]

but does the path not change before and behind you as you walk it? one cannot observe without changing the observed, as shown by quantum mechanics. so even if we are all set on trajectories, even doing no more than following will alter those paths, and who can say what deviating (real or imagined) can do? i believe that God has a plan, but that plan includes free will.

 

[Silver Incubus]

But to prove that free will exists means to prove that if you could have chosen to do something else, which is impossible. For me, what you wrote, was suppose to happen, and what I'm typing here was also suppose to happen.

So, for me, Free will seems only an illusion, but at the same time, a very good thing, because if you think you have free will, you will act and precieve those actions like you actually have free will, but that in itself can also be what fate has planned out for you because you will follow the path you are suppose to because your precieved choices will lead you into the direction you are suppose to go.

And you as a christian should believe this, because I'm pretty sure somewhere in the bible God says HE is omnipotent. But what god wnats is your faith in him. And like I said before, it is only how you precieve the events in your life that makes a differents because the events will happen the way they are suppose to.

I figured this out, when I realized that there are no such things as coincedences. It was an epiphany that change my whole perspective on life. Then when I began to think about my past, the evidence was all there. Person A was in my life to teach me A and so that when I met person B I would be able and ready to learn lesson B and so forth.
Action X resulted in Y happeing which would later result in person C comming into my life and teaching me about C.

People think, what if 'this' didn't happen. Or I wish 'this' didn't happen. But would you be the same person you are today if it didn't? And can you with your free will change the past? Or the person you are today? No, so can it change who you will meet, or be in the future? NO. Why? because if it was going to happen, it will, otherwise it won't happen.

 

[Kenneth R.]

oh i agree that life experiences teach us and make us who we are, but i also think that we have sway over our own destiny. imagine this: if God already knows where our paths and "choices" will take us, then why even bother, since he already knows who's been "naughty" and "nice", so to speak. why then give those who went astray the illusion of a promised forgiveness should they repent their ways if he knows they never will? why this charade we call life if all is already decided? why would he want our faith and our praise, why send Jesus to teach us something if he already knows what will happen to us all? i think the "paths" we follow are more guided than enforced... more flexible than rigid. only at the very end of the path will you be able to turn and know all you have and will experience, with no way to go back and see if it could not turn out differently. i think only then is your path set and unchanging, once it has been traveled.

 

[Iridium]

I'm fairly interested in free will, and what it is. I've only come across two definitions of it: our ability to act based on the "upper brain functions" as opposed to instincts/emotions; and the more universal one, concerning determinism and causality. If the latter definition is at hand, we have no free will, because our actions are determined directly by the brain/pituitary system (the glands), which are developed around two factors: genetics and environment (everything we have ever encountered and experienced throughout our lives). Both the former and the latter act, for the majority, without our influence (even when we do alter our environment somehow, our actions in causing these changes were the original cause of the actions). In fact, the only random factors in the infinitely-complex causal chain that is the universe, are on the quantum particle level. Thus, everything on the scopic level is causal, and everything on the quantum level is random - how could free will exist? Where does free will come in? Christians, however, believe in a not-so-well defined version of free will (since, for it to be at all reasonable for God to judge us either to eternal paradise or damnation, we must be responsible for our own actions, and without free will, we are not). This is only possible, however, if there is no omniscienty entity, or deity (or even the possibility of the existence of an omniscient entity). But God is identified in the Bible as "all-knowing" (I don't recall the exact passage, but I recall reading it and many scholars referencing it), which creates the dilemma: free will and an omniscient entity cannot coexist, but if free will does not exist, we cannot reasonably be held accountable for our actions, which means that God has no reasonable right to judge us. It would be much akin to judging actors for their roles in movies about crime.

 

[Kenneth R.]

and yet, you omit the possibility of free-will being a component of this all knowing omniscience. if God knows everything, not only does he know everything you've done, are doing, and will do, but he knows every choice and fission along the way, and every possible branch stemming from every instant of existance. what then is stopping us from choosing which branch to follow if pre-determined roads exist in infinitely possible directions? even allowing free-will, infinite knowledge would allow omniscience.

 

[Iridium]

What exactly is it? I'm asking a question here.

If God knows everything, not only does he know everything we've done, are doing, and will do, but every choice along the way. However, if he already knows which of the choices we will make, the web of choices in our life ends up being one highlighted path, with many (utterly irrelevant at this point) branching out. I repeat: if he already knows which of the paths we will take - and he does, since he is omniscient - there is no choice on our part. If you fail to grasp this simple concept, I'm wasting my time.

 

[Iridium]

1. i am stating the obvious. "actions speak louder than words". i could call myself an atheist, but if i do God's work, you would know that i am not. and vice versa.

Define "God's work." As an atheist, you could do whatever the hell you want, and as long as you do not believe in a deity, you are still an atheist. This point is stupid, though, since you've committed a logical fallacy.

2. intent to mislead is purposeful to slander or damage the reputation and goals of the group misrepresented. unintentional stems from ignorance. spreading incorrect information and ideals, false testimony, though without knowledge of misrepresentation. this is what i meant.

Oh, wonderful - so do you want me to come up to all the Christians I've argued with over the years and tell them, "sorry, guys: your beliefs do not coincide with those of Silent Song, thus you are not real Christians." Not only is this a logical fallacy, but it's an utterly ridiculous notion.

3. i already explained the point of that quote twice. your explanation was short indeed, but the easy path is not always correct. here again for the 3rd time: "walk by faith" means to travel by faith, that is, to do all you do in conscious understanding of how it relates to your beliefs and act (walk) accordingly.

Wouldn't this be akin to "living" by faith? To do "all you do" by faith is essentially to live by faith. Guess I was right.

it also means to trust God and his way rather than our own, imperfect senses.

Ah, and here we go: what do you mean by "imperfect senses?" Does God communicate to you mentally? Does he guide you while you're playing Frogger, since your senses are obviously insufficient? Do you realize that you have just come to the same conclusion as me, though in different terms?

to walk by faith and not by eyes is to walk with trust, and trust is a synonym to faith. trust in ourselves, in our faith, in each other, and in God. the word "walk" is used, and not "live", because one can live standing still. instead, we are told to walk, to move forward, to act and be active in the ways of faith. the word "by" is used to signify the importance of the word "faith" as the singular source by which to "walk". further, it means to see with one's heart/feelings instead of one's eyes, to see beyond what is in plain sight. to see meaning instead of objects. to close one's eyes to this visible world and its meager trivial posessions. it is a phrase that simultaneously signifies these ideologies of Christianity, as taught and shown by Jesus.

Blah blah blah silly rhetoric, whatever. One's heart is an organ for pumping blood. If our senses are already imperfect to observe what is, how can we depend on them to see what is beyond plain sight? Is there an inherent meaning in everything? What's the meaning of that rock over there? You are ridiculous.

if you want to read the phrase "walk by faith" and claim it means simply to close your eyes and walk blinded, then perhaps you are right in the sense of the final point i made above, but it is much more than that. you're entitled to your interpretation, but i see it as incomplete.

Anybody who claims to use faith instead of senses is a hypocrite, because you rely on your senses every second that you are awake. I'm done with this tangent if you are.

 

[RookParliament]

Remember Iridium... Silent Song surfs for Jesus.

 

[10293847]

Yes, my children. I do, in fact, exist!

Now, worship me every sunday.

 

[TehLeperAffinity]

if God knows everything, not only does he know everything you've done

So you're basically trying to say God has a penis.