Downtuning

[BrandonS]

No, I haven't blocked you. I can't say I enjoy your teasing but there's nothing I can really do about it. What exactly do I have to do to "set up" the guitar for low tuning? There are no professionals I could go to in the area, so anything I do has to be by myself! It would be awesome if I could get one setup that will work in both E standard and B standard, is that possible at all? I was interested in starting a B-Standard doom project so this information will be useful.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Well, what happens is that when you put a drastically different gauge set of strings on your guitar, the difference in tension from the tuning and string gauge causes your guitar to not intonate properly. Meaning, you can tune it up and all that, but when you go to play certain chords or notes further up the fretboard towards the 12th fret and so on, you'll notice that the intonation is rather rough and sounds wrong. When you do a drastic tuning change on a guitar (i.e. going from E standard to B standard with heavier strings to boot) you usually have to adjust the bridge accordingly and perhaps tweak the truss rod, etc. If you don't have a strobe tuner and the proper tools (and a good ear) then it can be really difficult. I've been playing for 22 years and I still can't strobe tune and adjust the neck on my own guitar very well.

So basically the bottom line is this.....you can try using the same guitar and just restringing it yourself with heavier gauge strings (I'd suggest using around a .60 gauge E string, at least.....you might be able to get away with a .56 but your action is going to be pretty loose). But the intonation thing is going to be a gamble, so I say just try picking up a set of heavy strings and string up your guitar and try downtuning it to B or whatever key you're going for, and play in different positions on the neck and see how it sounds and feels.

 

[affinityband]

You will also find by the way that when you use heavier strings and tune it so low, that the strings will pretty much be flat against the fret board making a nasty warble sound. You need to raise the bridge, but as soon as you do that the intonation goes out as larry is saying. I would definatley advise not even touching the truss rod unless you have a spare guitar you can practice on. Simply because it will totally bugger up the neck and is so easy to get wrong.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Yeah agreed, like I said after all these years I still don't even mess with that stuff. I do know how to do it, technically, but it's so easy to fuck it up that I just won't take any chances. Especially with that truss rod. Boy I learned a lesson or two in the past with that one.

 

[affinityband]

Yeah you can totally bow the neck to extreme lengths when its done incorrectly. Advice: Go to a professional if your desperate to tune down. Although im sure your not seeing as that lecture was about half a page long of why it sucks.

 

[Limbonic]

Speaking of downtuning and all that, out of curiosity, what kind / gauge of strings do you ( larry/vitto ) use?

( I Am sorry if this was mentioned in another thread or something )

 

[BrandonS]

Yeah you can totally bow the neck to extreme lengths when its done incorrectly. Advice: Go to a professional if your desperate to tune down. Although im sure your not seeing as that lecture was about half a page long of why it sucks.

Well the Schecter is a neck-through-body... Would it still bow? Well I'm not even going to try to tune to B standard, so thanks for scaring me out of it.

 

[the_drip]

yes it would still bow.

 

[BalanceofPower]

Speaking of downtuning and all that, out of curiosity, what kind / gauge of strings do you ( larry/vitto ) use?

( I Am sorry if this was mentioned in another thread or something )

I use D'addario XL 13-56 guage strings. I think larry uses the 13-56 but he swaps out the 56 with a 60 or 62. I like a little bit of slack in my lower string, and I can never find the 60 or 62 guage strings anywhere. Larry is lucky because his roommate is a pro roadie/tech and can acquire such things as 60-62 guage strings, and other items of interest.

 

[the_drip]

The strings i've got now are Ernie Ball...like 58's. my brother plays tuned in C-standard with flimsy 49's. I can't do it. I hate his guitars.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

I use SIT Strings, .13 - .62. As Vito mentioned, Willie hooked me up with getting good deals on SIT Strings, which I love. They don't seem to rust so quickly and they almost never break, so I'm happy.

I've gotten so used to playing the heavier gauge strings, that it's awkward for me now to play a guitar with .10s or something on them, even tuned to E standard. I like alot of tension in my strings, as long as the action is set properly and not too high.

 

[wildfyr]

Thou shall not diss the dooowwntune

 

[affinityband]

Well the Schecter is a neck-through-body... Would it still bow? Well I'm not even going to try to tune to B standard, so thanks for scaring me out of it.

Yes. infact if its a thru-neck itl probably screw up the body too.

 

[BrandonS]

Yes. infact if its a thru-neck itl probably screw up the body too.

Ahhh ok.

I use extra-light strings, not exactly sure of the size throughout the pack but high E is .10. They're heavy enough to do some good riffing yet slinky enough to pull off some good bends and stuff in solos. I like that kind of freedom! I probably couldn't handle a really tight setup.

And affinityband, if it's ok, could you remove those quotes from your signature so this kind of thing doesn't happen again? I will say now, I like stuff with low tunings, and if I had known people were gonna blow that out of proportion, I would have been extremely clear in the original thread... I was just trying to get the idea across to the guitar-newb that moving away from E Standard at this point would be very unwise. I've been playing for 5+ years and I'm still not ready. Soo thanks. And yes it's true I wrote 2 full-length CDs before I started learning the actual notes and forms of scales, what the heck is so funny about that? Haha! I don't really care so much about that one because it's true but it's still kinda embarassing to be quoted regardless.

 

[FrostGiant]

I don't touch my truss rod. Never have. I've heard too many horror stories.

As for drop tuning and tuning down a half, whole or several steps. I think that just adds to the music. I'll write in E standard, D# and D based on where I want my vocals to be. I haven't played around with drop tuning lately but you can get some awesome sounding chords out of that.

 

[affinityband]

Ahhh ok.

I use extra-light strings, not exactly sure of the size throughout the pack but high E is .10. They're heavy enough to do some good riffing yet slinky enough to pull off some good bends and stuff in solos. I like that kind of freedom! I probably couldn't handle a really tight setup.

And affinityband, if it's ok, could you remove those quotes from your signature so this kind of thing doesn't happen again? I will say now, I like stuff with low tunings, and if I had known people were gonna blow that out of proportion, I would have been extremely clear in the original thread... I was just trying to get the idea across to the guitar-newb that moving away from E Standard at this point would be very unwise. I've been playing for 5+ years and I'm still not ready. Soo thanks. And yes it's true I wrote 2 full-length CDs before I started learning the actual notes and forms of scales, what the heck is so funny about that? Haha! I don't really care so much about that one because it's true but it's still kinda embarassing to be quoted regardless.

Sorry Oink, until i find something better, yours stays. Il keep an Eye out for Salient or Metal_Wrath. Other than thought. Nopeee.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Okay, I'm going to interject here for a second and please understand what I'm saying.....

If Affinityband and Oinkness have issue with each other, as apparently is the case, that's none of my business, and as I stated before I am sorry that I even directly quoted Oinkness as a means for the discussion point of this thread. The purpose of this thread was simply to hear different people's opinions of the positives/negatives of downtuning, droptuning, etc., because I thought it was an interesting subject to debate on. If this winds up being a thread simply for a couple people to wind up arguing and fighting with each other over something that didn't even originate in this particular forum, then I'm going to just delete this whole thread, as it's not the purpose of why I put it up here.

I'm not getting shitty with any or either of you, I respect everyone here. I just wanted this thread to be used for discussion and debate on the topic, purely. Hopefully you'll respect that and be cool with it. Ok fellas?

 

[BrandonS]

Downtuning to D Standard is probably fine with my Schecter and extra-light strings, right? The only problem with switching to a different tuning is, I have all the songs I wrote in E standard so there'd be the big wait time for tuning instruments between songs if they were ever played live.... I get kinda uncomfortable with 5+ minute waits between songs!

 

[the_drip]

if you're gonna use tons of alt tunings..then you need tons of guitars. ...does Opeth re-tune their guitars to open D and drop while everyone stands around and watches? no...Mike jokes and the roadie grabs the guitar that's already set up for whichever tuning they need next...5 seconds later...new guitar..new song. Never stop the show to sit their and tune during your set.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

If you're strung with .10 gauge strings, you can probably detune to D with little to no problems. Odds are that your low E string is around a .52, so that would work fine.
However, if you're going to be playing songs live where there's alternate tunings between songs, you probably are going to need a second guitar on hand, unless you can learn to live with the longer downtime onstage for retuning. Unless you're just going to use droptuning for the low E string which is quick and easy enough, usually.