E-Kit + DFH EZD

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Ok, so I just brought home my girlfriend's Hart Prodigy e-kit and Alesis DM-5 module. Went out and bought an Edirol UM-1ex MIDI->USB adapter and hooked everything up. Opened up Cubase SX and loaded my DFH EZD instrument, started to bang on the drums. It sucks because there are only three toms on the kit and two cymbal pads, so I noticed that it chose the highest tom and lowest tom, and then tom 3 on the DFH kit to correlate with the MIDI coming in. I thought that was a bit wierd, but oh well...until I learn more about MIDI routing, etc. I'll just have to deal with it.

Using the Pop/Rock kit everything worked out fine, only we have two cymbal pads so the first crash (on the left) and the ride (on the right) get triggered. After messing with the settings for sensitivity and cross-talking between all the pads I finally got it running like butter. Snare rolls, cymbal crescendos, etc. all come out fantastic. A drummer friend of mine is coming over tomorrow night hopefully and will be jamming on it a bit. He also has a complete set of DDrum Pro triggers for his set (altogether like 6 or 7 triggers) and we might do some work in the future using this method since I can utililize all the toms in the DFH EZX for his stuff and mic up the OH's and stuff the drums with pillows to make them basically like an e-kit. Should be fun. I'll have something up as soon as we get together for everyone to check out.

~e.a
 
Well, a while back I had the idea of taking an acoustic set, stuffing each shell until it ended up like an e-kit, and then mic'ing the OH's, and then run triggers on all the shells and use the DM-5 with DFHS and Drumagog. It wasn't until hearing one of Dimmu Borgir's tracks off of an album where they utilized that method before I thought it would actually work. After hearing that I was like "rock, it will work".

I've used this set before in the studio for drummers that had trashed out kits and made them get use to playing an electronic kit. No fun trying to make somebody get use to it, no matter how much the alternative blows, lol. Btw, this is a Hart Prodigy set, it's got a kick, snare, 3 toms, two cymbals, and a HH w/ foot controller all on a rack system that's sturdy. This kit was fairly cheap, I think she paid $350 for it used, and the module came with it. All the hardware is present (even to this day) and nothing is worn out or seems under par quality-wise. I'm curious to try out a Roland V-kit though just to see if I can get any more velocity layers out of the pads than I am with the Hart ones. Although, the amount I'm getting is plenty, just curious if the Roland pads would offer more layers.

I might get a nicer e-kit in the near future, or just look into expanding this one (best choice haha). For now though, this rocks! :lol:

~e.a
 
Here is my poor attempt at testing out the kit. The only thing that really bothers me is the foot controller for the hats, but I think it has a lot to do with the Alesis module. You can hear it when I show how the hats work in the clip. I think if I had maybe a Roland TD-20 module it would handle things a lot better for the hats. This is just to test out it's response and everything, and to show the velocity layers you can get with EZD and the Hart Prodigy kit using an Alesis DM-5 module.

When that dude comes over tonight I'll get him to jam on it a bit and I'll record the MIDI and post it here.

~e.a

*Disclaimer* I am not a drummer.
 
I built my own e-kit a while back...Couldn't be more happy with it...Triggers perfect...I copied the Roland internals and just bought a bunch of cheap 10" toms and 12" snare and some cheapo Sabians...Didn't cost much at all...If you already have a brain, it's very cheap...Works fantastic with Superior, the hats are very realistic, once you get them setup right...

Here's a pic:
e-kit.jpg
 
Sure...I don't remember exactly what it cost but, I would say around $1000 or so...I guess I mean "cheap" in comparison to a $5000 Roland kit...

Inside each drum is this...I copied what his guy did...

http://derksens.com/E-drums/Beatnik/MoreInvolvedInternalTrigger.htm

You can get the Roland cones at MF...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Roland-VDrum-Replacement-Cone?sku=441921

Then you need mesh heads...I found after a lot of experimentation that the Roland heads are far and away the best...Although they cost more...Trust me on this, they're the best...No question...I hit very hard and they have lasted a year...and still going strong...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Roland-MH12-Mesh-VReplacement-Head-12?sku=441908

The kicks are a design using Remo practice pads and I mounted them to a plywood riser and screwed all that to a bigger piece of 1/2" plywood along with the pedals so nothing would wander around on me...

I copied this design....

http://www.electronicdrums.com/pads/pads2.htm

Then the rest of it is just rack parts and misc hardware and stuff that I scrounged off EBAy...I got the rubber edging from McMasterCarr...The smaller pads under the crashes are the mutes...etc...

Here's how I made the cymbals...I just contact cemented a drum mute to the bottom and mounted the piezo, with hot glue, inside a Radio Shack project box...

crash.jpg


Here's the ride it's a dual trigger for the bell and bow seperate...Works great...and gives a little crosstalk just like the real deal...

ride.jpg


Just a general pic...

side.jpg
 
Hey, LiveWire, that setup you have is amazing. Do you trigger DFHS straight from your laptop that's in that picture? I'm looking into doing a similar setup. I'm curious about what kind of latecy you're getting on that set between your Roland module and the laptop. I'd like a Roland TD-20 for the midi conversion, but I think its overkill and I'm gonna wait until the Alesis Trigger I/O comes out and gets some good reviews.
 
Yup..I trigger DFHS right from that laptop and monitor that...It's an old laptop too, nothing fancy...I can record and monitor real time with it, so while there may be some latency, it's very low...No diferent than using a keyboard to trigger samples...Once they all get loaded in everything is fine...I just use one of those MAudioUno USB things...No problems...

Yeah I wouldn't go crazy and get the top of the line Roland module...The sounds from Superior are much more realistic...Any old trigger to MIDI converter will do the job...I have an old TD-7 that's also hidden in that picture that I used for quite a while before I got the TD-8 and that worked fine too...Just didn't have all the parameter adjustments I needed...The TD-8 is perfect for me...
 
LiveWire said:
Yup..I trigger DFHS right from that laptop and monitor that...It's an old laptop too, nothing fancy...I can record and monitor real time with it, so while there may be some latency, it's very low...No diferent than using a keyboard to trigger samples...Once they all get loaded in everything is fine...I just use one of those MAudioUno USB things...No problems...

Yeah I wouldn't go crazy and get the top of the line Roland module...The sounds from Superior are much more realistic...Any old trigger to MIDI converter will do the job...I have an old TD-7 that's also hidden in that picture that I used for quite a while before I got the TD-8 and that worked fine too...Just didn't have all the parameter adjustments I needed...The TD-8 is perfect for me...
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for that info. I've been getting all sorts of different answers from people about this but I can take your word for it. A couple more questions...

1. How is the hi hat control into DFHS with your setup? Will different modules perform better?

2. I am thinking about coverting my kit like you have done. How loud are the cymbal hits and drum hits with those pads? Would it bother someone nextdoor in an apartment complex, condo...... whatever?

3. The TD8 only has 10 trigger inputs, no? How are you running that many pieces into your module?
 
First of all I'm a little bummed I can't record anything so you can hear it for yourself...The room those are setup in is in the process of being painted and re-carpeted and turned in to a proper spot for me to call my "studio" at the moment so everything is in a pile in the basement...

1) The hi-hat control is unbelieveably good...I've been playing drums for 20+ years and they are about as close to "real" as you can get...IMHO...Moving the hat pedal up and down cycles through the various "Hat Open" samples and the hat disco type stuff(for lack of a better description) works very good. The psst chick chick psst...hehe..stuff is great...I don't know if the newer modules handle this task better, I've never tried them...I'm pretty happy with this one and I'm a gear monger always trying new stuff and that thought really doesn't cross my mind I guess....

2) They are about as loud as a TV...Picture the sound that would be made if you hit a tennis racket with a drumstick...It's a pingy woosh sound...If you are going for maximum quietness...I would buy the CY-8 pads for crashes/hats and a CY-12 for the ride...The cost would be about the same as what I've done and would be much quieter...I just like the feel of hitting an actual cymbal and I live in a house, so no real worries about the volume level...The cymbals are a bit louder than the drums...Actually I have switched out the ride in this pic for a CY-12 as it was also chewing up the sticks using a real cymbal for a ride...So to answer your question, yes I think it would be possible in an apartment environment...Definetly quieter than vacuum or a lous stereo...

3) It actually has 12 inputs...1/2 and 11/12 are dual mono inputs (very important)....not stereo....So, on my kit the two cymbals to either side of the splash in the middle are triggering the same sound in the module they are chained together using a Y-Cable and plugged into the "Crash 1" jack...The two kicks use the same input, #1, they are mono chained via the pads...The splash uses input #2...The extra floortom uses #11 and the extra hat pad I have setup over the ride uses #12 setup for an always closed hat...Kinda cool...The rest of the stuff is plugged in to the "normal" spot on the module...You can do a lot of "fooling" with the inputs to get it right and if you run out just get another cheap old module like a TD-7/DM5 or something and a MIDI cable and boom you'll have more inputs than you know what to do with...

Once I get the MIDI recorded then I clean it up in Cubase by removing all the ghosting under 40 by deleting it all...The Logical Editor already has a preset for it...Then I shift the hits to R/L hits etc...and clean it all up a little...etc...I've become quite quick with it...good stuff...
 
elephant-audio said:
Here is my poor attempt at testing out the kit. The only thing that really bothers me is the foot controller for the hats, but I think it has a lot to do with the Alesis module. You can hear it when I show how the hats work in the clip. I think if I had maybe a Roland TD-20 module it would handle things a lot better for the hats. This is just to test out it's response and everything, and to show the velocity layers you can get with EZD and the Hart Prodigy kit using an Alesis DM-5 module.

When that dude comes over tonight I'll get him to jam on it a bit and I'll record the MIDI and post it here.

~e.a

*Disclaimer* I am not a drummer.
Click to expand...


Nice man. The hats are probably the biggest let down in the clip, but the rest sounds pretty decent. Looking forward to hearing what you get with your mate.
 
Yeah, with the GM map it doesn't "see" the other hat notes so all I can get is like pedal close, closed hat, and half-open hat...lame-o. I wish I could run the other map for EZD so I could get all of the notes but I am thinking that the module/pad won't allow that many variables.

My friend is on his way, I should have a clip up tonight for everyone. Can't wait!

LiveWire: Fuckin' killer dude. :headbang:

~e.a
 
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