What would you guys say are like the top 5 must own Black Metal albums of all time? (Black metal has always been my least favourite metal genre but I find myself getting into it more and more of late)
Emperor
- Thread starter Rocky Raccoon
- Start date
- Status
Talking Meat said:
Sounds awesome, thats what I love about Bathory! Will definatley have to check this out!!
Welkins doesn't really sound like Bathory's Viking albums. I know you went for the image that it evokes rather than how it sounds, but of course the images might be more similar if the music is similar. Early Enslaved (Vikingligr Veldi, Frost, Eld) and Windir are more along the lines of the Viking-era Bathory perhaps.
With Strength I Burn is an amazing song. The end of the song slays.
With Strength I Burn is an amazing song. The end of the song slays.
Hubster
...
@=NoBigDeal=@ said:
Towards the Pantheon and Ye Entranceperium are two of the best Black Metal songs ever written. Period!!
Hubster
...
derbeder said:
Agreed 100% - there is little to nothing of Emperor which harkens to the viking sounds of Bathory's Hammerheart nor Blood Fire Death.
Those are completely different styles.
Emperors music, especially as it grew on from Nightside, became more and more orchestral/symphonic due to Ihsahn's increased use of keys. Its a big character of his style imo. One need only look at Peccatum and realise that Peccatum was a logical progression / logical next step.
Note:
Viking Metal is more a historical re-iteration, lyrically & artistically speaking, of the old Norse sagas and mythologies. It probably goes deeper into the mythologies than Black Metal does.
Black Metal uses the old Norse histories in a more religious and sometimes political (and somewhat violent) context, to express Paganism (and anti-Christianism in some cases) and highlight the "old roots" of the Norse peoples before their assimilation into Christian society circa 1000AD.
The outcome of these two approaches results in stark differences in the music - look back at older Black Metal c1991 or so, and you'' notice the raw production, "anti-punk, anti-music" structure to the songs. That expresses part of the revolt against todays Scandanavian conservatism.
Man In Black
Member
- Jul 29, 2004
- 331
- 0
- 16
Hubster
...
Benighted1 said:
This is a tough one, there is so much good Black Metal (well I think so) to choose from.
High rotations on my iPod for some time:
1349: Hellfire
Burzum: Hvis Lyset Tar Oss, Filosofem
Deathspell Omega: Kénôse
Drudkh: Blood In Our Wells
Negură Bunget: Inarborat Kosmos
Tåke: Over Bjørgvin Gråter Himmerick, Hordaland Døedskvad
Ulver: Bergtatt
As far as essential albums... well, I guess, here's a few:
Bathory: Bathory
Burzum: Det Som Engang Var, Aske (EP)
Emperor: In The Nightside Eclipse, Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk
Enslaved: Vikingligr Veldi, Frost (although they arent considered strictly Black Metal)
Immortal: Pure Holocaust
While not essential, in terms of Black Metal history, I highly recommend:
Borknagar: Borknagar - this first album beautifully captures the essence of cold, caustic/rough Black Metal. Very underrated album. The Olden Domain extends from it really well as a follow up.
Other people may mention Mayhem and Darkthrone, but I really consider their stuff to be trash. Just my personal taste I guess.
The Hubster said:
Cool thanks very much for the list..
How come you consider Mayhem trash? Just interested because I always thought they were one of the innovators of black metal or whatever...
Also on a side note, I found that one of the main reasons why I didn't like/found it hard to get into alot of Black metal was the awful production on the albums, I know alot of the time it is meant to be this way or whatever but still, I like to be able to clearly hear what each instrument is doing...
Hubster
...
With Mayhem I think the only reason they got known was really because of their singer (named "Dead") shooting himself.
As far as Darkthrone goes, well their music is just awful.
As far as thr production goes:
Earlier BM bands deliberately used "simple" production. It was part of their revolt against mainstream and conservative society, they wanted to make "anti-music" music.
It does take time to get used to it, but once you do, you realise it couldnt be done any other way. Black Metal is very much about its philosophy as well as the music. Read some interviews and stuff, it will make getting into it easier.
Later Black Metal, such as Blut Aus Nord and Deathspell Omega use a more normal style of production, but no one really goes "super-produced" if you know what I mean.
At its core, Black Metal is a simple style of Metal musically, unlike say, Power Metal. This harkens from Black Metal's punk influences. However, later Black Metal, like Negură Bunget, is much more technical. Personally I think Slavic Black Metal is the future for the genre, not Norweigan (unless its Tåke).
However, later down the line, with bands like Enslaved on their Blodhemn and Mardraum albums, we see more experimenting, but also a "honing" of making the rawness of the sound come out while using better production. It works well.
Ikil - any thoughts mate?
As far as Darkthrone goes, well their music is just awful.
As far as thr production goes:
Earlier BM bands deliberately used "simple" production. It was part of their revolt against mainstream and conservative society, they wanted to make "anti-music" music.
It does take time to get used to it, but once you do, you realise it couldnt be done any other way. Black Metal is very much about its philosophy as well as the music. Read some interviews and stuff, it will make getting into it easier.
Later Black Metal, such as Blut Aus Nord and Deathspell Omega use a more normal style of production, but no one really goes "super-produced" if you know what I mean.
At its core, Black Metal is a simple style of Metal musically, unlike say, Power Metal. This harkens from Black Metal's punk influences. However, later Black Metal, like Negură Bunget, is much more technical. Personally I think Slavic Black Metal is the future for the genre, not Norweigan (unless its Tåke).
However, later down the line, with bands like Enslaved on their Blodhemn and Mardraum albums, we see more experimenting, but also a "honing" of making the rawness of the sound come out while using better production. It works well.
Ikil - any thoughts mate?
Hubster
...
Benighted1 said:
Nope, thats a song from Emperor's "The Nightside Eclipse" album.
Here, you'd be surprised at how much Wikipedia has on it these days:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_(band)
and also...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_metal
You can find a lot of Black Metal info on Wikipedia, its quite surprising. If youre looking for a band and they have a common word kind of name (example, Enslaved), then use "Enslaved (band)" as your search.
As everyone knows, Wiki isnt 100% reliable, but overall its pretty good. Just make sure you read up. Feel free to PM if you need any more help....
PS - if you have a hard time getting into BM because of the production, start of with these albums, and work your way backwards:
Enslaved: Ruun, or Isa, then back to Mardraum for example.
Emperor: IX Equilibrium, and then go to Anthems To The Welkin At Dusk
Man In Black
Member
- Jul 29, 2004
- 331
- 0
- 16
The Hubster said:
probably a silly question but what do you think of Dimmu Borgior?
particulary their earlier stuff? I remember seen one of their albums with a castle on the cover and someone on a horse and thinking what an awesome cover it was..
NFU
I like pie.
The Hubster said:
A. mayhem is well known, because without them AND their highly influential and groundbreaking release "de mysteriis dom sathanas", the 2nd wave of black metal would never have existed, primarily due to euronymous' creation of the scene in norway. to completely forego the credit due to mayhem and all the groundwork they had laid before their 3rd vocalist (who never even appeared on a studio release) killed himself, is a very silly approach and obviously has a significant dosage of ignorance due to your obvious ignorance and lack of "taste" for it.
B. darkthrone isnt awful, youre just a hack...and obviously have more of a need for overbearing melody than the meat and potatos grittyness and attitude foundation in which black metal is really spawned from. aka get a clue.
C. the production had nothing to do with being anti-society. listen to venom's "black metal" album and youll figure out where that production aproach really came from. not to mention a good deal of those bands had no money for good production anyway, so often opted for a cheaper but ideally more "extreme" production quality which would later become a trademark of the genre whether or not it was actually intentional.
D. If you think power metal is any "simpler" than black metal, then i think youre sorely mistaken. For even if some bands chose a 3 note approach, many bands early on (i.e. emperor, enslaved, ulver, satyricon, immortal) had plenty of forward thinking riffs, harmonies and semi complex compositions from the start, especially considering how young many of them were at the time.
E. Experimentation with black metal came far sooner than blodhemn and mardraum. Bands like Abigor, Ved Buens Ende, Dodheimsgard, and Arcturus all pre-date AND were the flagbearers of advant garde black metal at least in scope, if not completely in composition, long before 1998 and 2000 (bloodhem and mardraums release dates respectively). That being said, hit the books and then you can rant again another day.
much of darkthrone isn't all that good compared to some other black metal bands. but they have crafted great songs. starting with a blaze in the northern sky they kept getting better until transylvanian hunger. that album is one of the top, genre defining albums in black metal. after that they have only a couple good songs, eg. 'en vind av sorg' from panzerfaust and 'wreak' from plaguewielder. but they have written a lot of trash as well, eg. all of total death and goatlord. the last three albums have a couple somewhat memorable songs, but they are nowhere near what was on transylvanian hunger.
mayhem has suffered from crappy vocals for forever. de mysteriis dom sathanas could have been so much better without atilla's popeye vocals. the songs there are pretty good (funeral fog and freezing moon are awesome). i liked the last album chimera, partly because all the instruments could be heard very clearly (hellhammer's drum work there is top notch) and the vocals aren't as annoying. impious devious leper lord and rape humanity with pride are good black metal songs, i think and whether it's the production or the composition, these songs do not sound much like other black metal. they aren't not too many people got excited about chimera, and i would not rank it too high among black metal albums but when i give it a spin, i enjoy it a good bit.
but i would listen to enslaved, early ulver, burzum or satyricon (especially nemesis divina and rebel extravaganza) instead of much of darkthrone and mayhem.
mayhem has suffered from crappy vocals for forever. de mysteriis dom sathanas could have been so much better without atilla's popeye vocals. the songs there are pretty good (funeral fog and freezing moon are awesome). i liked the last album chimera, partly because all the instruments could be heard very clearly (hellhammer's drum work there is top notch) and the vocals aren't as annoying. impious devious leper lord and rape humanity with pride are good black metal songs, i think and whether it's the production or the composition, these songs do not sound much like other black metal. they aren't not too many people got excited about chimera, and i would not rank it too high among black metal albums but when i give it a spin, i enjoy it a good bit.
but i would listen to enslaved, early ulver, burzum or satyricon (especially nemesis divina and rebel extravaganza) instead of much of darkthrone and mayhem.
Hubster
...
NineFeetUnderground said:
God I just couldnt be bothered posting all that junk.
How about you learn to stop trying to be a know-it-all and realise that all Im trying to do is share info on music with someone who wants to know about it?
Once the guy has done his own research he will come up with his own ideas.
Stop trying to be such an elistist. I knew that you would jump onto my comments at some point. Take a chill pill, and instead of slamming me, help this guy to get his hands on some good music and good info.
Try to be helpful instead of causing trouble.
NFU
I like pie.
i did. if you read what i wrote, i was clearing it up for him, rather than having him beleive your haphazard psychobabble. im not an elitist. im going to put on john mayer next doofus. just get your facts straight and youll have nothing to worry about.
First of all, Emperor, for me, is the best black metal band ever. They took their music further than the other early black metal bands did, even when they were 'true' with the symphonic elements. They made some of the most memorable and catchiest tremelo riffs ever, I am the Black Wizards, Cosmic Keys To My Creations and Times and Inno A Satana prove that. Anthems went further and was an epic masterpiece and With Strength I Burn remains my favourite Emperor song to this day.
But I think IX Equilibrium and Prometheus really proved how amazing this band could get. They aren't very popular albums with the 'true' crowd, but to many who appreciate all forms of metal, these 2 albums, especially Prometheus takes the cake. Very skillfully written, technical, complicated, these albums showed that Emperor were more than just a black metal band. It also put forward that Ihsahn is one of the best musical masterminds of the last 10 - 15 years. He's work in Peccatum, Thou Shalt Suffer and now his solo work only prove that more.
For essential bands, for me, I'd say Emperor, Limbonic Art, Taake, Drudkh, Shining, Enslaved (yes, viking, but its black metal!!!) and I'll even throw Xasthur into that mix too. Also works from Satyricon, Leviathan, Immortal too.
I think Australia has got an interesting black metal scene as well. Not exactly anything new or original, but interesting for what they are. Astriaal, The Furor, Forn Valdyrheim, Elysian Blaze are certainly worthy BM bands in my book.
I have to agree with The Hubster in my dislike of Darkthrone and Mayhem as well. Sure, I appreciate what they have done for the scene etc, I mean, I have all the Mayhem full lengths and the first 4 Darkthrone albums. But really, don't bother with them, there are fuck loads better black metal out there. This is just poor stuff and I often think that if Darkthrone can get as big as they have become, then so can any other band. As for Mayhem, only A Grand Declaration of War provided anything interesting for me, a great album.
Yes, I know people will harp on about how black metal is meant to be simple and raw and all that, thats fine. But I have more appreciation for an artist who can make their music with a lot more skill and variation rather than just power chords and heaps of repetition. Sure, can be catchy, but hell, it gets very boring. Simple as that.
But I think IX Equilibrium and Prometheus really proved how amazing this band could get. They aren't very popular albums with the 'true' crowd, but to many who appreciate all forms of metal, these 2 albums, especially Prometheus takes the cake. Very skillfully written, technical, complicated, these albums showed that Emperor were more than just a black metal band. It also put forward that Ihsahn is one of the best musical masterminds of the last 10 - 15 years. He's work in Peccatum, Thou Shalt Suffer and now his solo work only prove that more.
For essential bands, for me, I'd say Emperor, Limbonic Art, Taake, Drudkh, Shining, Enslaved (yes, viking, but its black metal!!!) and I'll even throw Xasthur into that mix too. Also works from Satyricon, Leviathan, Immortal too.
I think Australia has got an interesting black metal scene as well. Not exactly anything new or original, but interesting for what they are. Astriaal, The Furor, Forn Valdyrheim, Elysian Blaze are certainly worthy BM bands in my book.
I have to agree with The Hubster in my dislike of Darkthrone and Mayhem as well. Sure, I appreciate what they have done for the scene etc, I mean, I have all the Mayhem full lengths and the first 4 Darkthrone albums. But really, don't bother with them, there are fuck loads better black metal out there. This is just poor stuff and I often think that if Darkthrone can get as big as they have become, then so can any other band. As for Mayhem, only A Grand Declaration of War provided anything interesting for me, a great album.
Yes, I know people will harp on about how black metal is meant to be simple and raw and all that, thats fine. But I have more appreciation for an artist who can make their music with a lot more skill and variation rather than just power chords and heaps of repetition. Sure, can be catchy, but hell, it gets very boring. Simple as that.
Hubster
...
NineFeetUnderground said:
My facts ARE straight and I have expressed what is my opinion and also encouraged him to read up so he can get his own ideas.
You are the one who has gone on a babble. All Im trying to do is give him info to get started. Now fuck off.
- Status
