"Enemies of Reality" the remix

[General Zod]

That's normally true, J, but when the production is so horrible that it distracts you from listening to the music, it makes a difference. Seriously, I've heard indie demos with much better sound quality than the original EoR. I always said the songs were cool, I just couldn't listen to the CD for long 'cause it was too annoying to hear all that static all the time.

Exactly. I had it as my #5 CD of 2003. For what it's worth, here were my exact comments:

Nevermore’s “Enemies of Reality”. Had you told me that a Nevermore
release would end up as low as #5 on one of my Top 10 lists, I would
have simply shook my head and walked away. However, Kelly Gray and
the accountants at Century Media have conspired against our heroes,
and have brought us a disc that sounds as if it was recorded on $39
Radio Shack boom box. Despite the horrid production, the songs are as
strong as ever. Loomis puts to bed any and all debate about who the
finest guitar player in the genre is. Van’s drumming is top notch as
always. Warrell’s vocals and lyrics are as emotive, intelligent, and
as meticulously delivered as Nevermore fans have grown to expect.
Make no mistake about it, had Neil Kernon, Andy Sneap or my nearly
deaf Grandfather produced this CD, it would have garnered top honors.

Zod

 

[lizard]

I don't know if you can even blame the producer. I think when the pissing contest developed between the band and label, the label lowballed the budget and he did what he could within the narrow financial perameters (sp).

 

[JayKeeley]

If you dig that sort of production, that's cool. I know some here think a lesser production can somehow add atmosphere to a release.

Well, for example, I'm talking about the difference where a Les Paul laced into a vintage tube amp will always sound "warmer" than a crystal clean 7-string Ibanez stripped down and then multi-tracked into some solid state Marshall.

Perhaps "machine sounding" is the wrong description? I don't know how else to describe something so exceptionally polished, with that gleaming clean sound, whether it be Politics or Dead Heart. That is why lots of people call them a "death metal band with clean vocals". Decapitated production similarities come to mind I guess. Every click, every note, it's recorded to crystal tone perfection -- so obviously when Enemies came out, there was an uproar.

If you take Enemies out of context and just look at it on its own, it's really not that bad at all. Even with a reduced budget, neither CM or the band would have released an album with a corrupt/faulty production, it was just inferior to what people are used to.

 

[lizard]

good point. some bands incorporate murky production as part of their thing. this was a real about face from a band which was always recorded very cleanly.

 

[JayKeeley]

Here's the OLD version of Ambivalent:

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0IGPF48BPC0FA39JI6AH8560JQ

 

[J.]

The link Nate gave doesn't work for me. Quicktime is fucking up lately.

I listened to the original, and nothing sounded wrong with it at all. All this hullabaloo about the production seems blown out of proportion. When the album didn't sound the way they normally do, the fans freaked.

 

[General Zod]

Well, for example, I'm talking about the difference where a Les Paul laced into a vintage tube amp will always sound "warmer" than a crystal clean 7-string Ibanez stripped down and then multi-tracked into some solid state Marshall.

Agreed. And there's a lot of stuff I like that has that sound. And I could care less if Jeff decided that on the next disc, he wanted a warmer sound. However, I still contend, that the only warmth on "Enemies" was the steaming pile of shit that was the production.

Perhaps "machine sounding" is the wrong description? I don't know how else to describe something so exceptionally polished, with that gleaming clean sound, whether it be Politics or Dead Heart.

I'd agree that "Politics" has a very clean sound, though I wouldn't call it exceptionally polished, certainly not to the extant that "Dead Heart" is.

Out of curiosity, do you own "Dreaming"? If not, let me know. You need to spend some time with that disc.

If you take Enemies out of context and just look at it on its own, it's really not that bad at all. Even with a reduced budget, neither CM or the band would have released an album with a corrupt/faulty production, it was just inferior to what people are used to.

At some point, this debate becomes about semantics. If CM in the past, had given Nevermore Y dollars to record a CD, I assume they gave them that amount to produce a product of Y quality. If CM then comes to Nevermore, as says we're going to give you Y x .33, then they have to expect a product that is going to be inferior by two thirds... a product they planned on releasing.

Zod

 

[Erik]

Eh

Old version sounds kind of like the new as a 56 kbps MP3, i.e. shit

Doesn't matter though, 'cause the music fucking blows. Wow, this is pure unadulterated garbage!

 

[NAD]

Listening to both versions back to back right now. Some of you have no idea what bad production is. This original version isn't great, but it's a far cry from awful. The riffs sounds much better in the old version, but the vocals are better in the new. I call it a draw. If you like dark production, don't bother with the new one. If you like clinical rubbing alcohol washed sound, go for it.

Another thing, I had no idea how much these dudes rip off Morbid Angel, a lot of these riffs are straight out of Gateways to Annihilation.

 

[J.]

Some of you have no idea what bad production is.

LOL

That's what I was thinking when listening to the old version. I thought it sounded fine. And it's a good thing the singer is pushed to the back, haha.

 

[lizard]

Doesn't matter though, 'cause the music fucking blows. Wow, this is pure unadulterated garbage!

 

[jimbobhickville]

All I can say is if you think that the old version wasn't bad production, then you must listen to some really unlistenable shit. Maybe y'all are thinking of the mix? The mix wasn't good, but not the real problem either. The problem was the horrid mastering that introduced static hisses and pops throughout the disc. If you can't hear those, then maybe you should get your hearing checked. Anyway, they pissed me off to no end, so I quit listening to the disc.

 

[NAD]

It's just that previous Nevermore albums couldn't be more polished and 'machine' sounding if they tried, and THAT is part of the appeal, and that is why CM re-released it -- for all those fans expecting more on that mechanical production perspective.

I can understand this, if I was a fan of the band and had always gotten crisp and clean production on previous releases, I might be a little miffed.

What are the band's thoughts on this? Do they approve or even care?

 

[JayKeeley]

Out of curiosity, do you own "Dreaming"? If not, let me know. You need to spend some time with that disc.

Yeah, got it. It's the only Nevermore album I haven't spent much time with, but I have owned Politics & Dead Heart since they first came out, and Enemies back when I got the promo.

What are the band's thoughts on this? Do they approve or even care?

It's hard to say. We interviewed the bass player - I guess he represents the band when he agrees to do interviews - and he told us they loved the production. I guess they have to say things like this though when promoting a new release.

Otherwise:

Q: So what do you think of the new album?
A: Oh man, it sucks. Don't buy this shitz.



I like the sound of the new version though. I agree with Nate in that I think it suits Nevermoremore.

 

[JayKeeley]

Another thing, I had no idea how much these dudes rip off Morbid Angel, a lot of these riffs are straight out of Gateways to Annihilation.

Listen to 1:02 - 1:12.

 

[General Zod]

Doesn't matter though, 'cause the music fucking blows. Wow, this is pure unadulterated garbage!

Your love for Bathory negates any value that your opinions might otherwise hold.

Zod

 

[NAD]

Listen to 1:02 - 1:12.

Dude seriously, I mean that's straight Sandoval/Azagthoth right there.