ENGL Blackmore/Fireball

[JeroenV]

So, in a couple of weeks im gonna buy myself a new amp, and i've decided that it's either gonna be a Engl Blackmore or a Fireball.
The blackmore has the upperhand in this one, but you might still be able to confince me for getting the fireball.
So which one do you think is better, or let me put this in perspective.
I mostly play (death)metal, regular live shows, and studio recordings, so it has to kinda sound awesome live but it also has to perform in the studio.

I'll be running it through a marshall 1960A or a Engl 4x12 VS PRO v30.
But again, if you know a better sounding cab in the same pricerange, don't hasitate to tell me

thanks.

 

[gorath23]

They are quite diffierent amps so its really difficult to recommend one over the other. It would help if you listed bands/tones you admire. The Fireball is a quirky amp. I find it is actually very, very versatile considering its a dual channel/ shared EQ layout. It responds very well to different pickups, for example I often record short pieces of demo music for my Dad's guitar selling business and using Strats I've coaxed blues, surf, rock, and jazzy tones out of it. Use a Tele neck pup and you get a really loose fat old-school Doom tone etc. Plus it does your brutal low-tuned Death Metal rather well too..... Optimum words I'd use when describing it is Fat as Hell with an aggressive dark edge.

I've never been that enamoured with the Blackmore, as it seems like a compromised amp to me. Thinner and spiky sounding, uber-tight but clearer. Listening to it just reminds me of a box of razor-blades. If I wanted something with less gain and more recording friendly than the Fireball (it has excessive gain!!!) I'd always look for a used Savage 60 over a Blackmore. If you have a guitar with low-output pups I'd recommend the Fireball for recording though. If you want to use it LIve I'd recommend buying a pedal EQ too as the tonality changes when cranked.

Whatever you do, do not pair the Fireball with the Marshall cab, as it really needs mids. An Engl Pro (not Standard, blargh) would be a great choice. I also recently picked up a Blackstar 4x12 with V30's that sounds great and is a very close replica, both quality and dimensions-wise of the Mesa Oversized cab, at half the price.

EDIT: To be totally honest, if I wanted something for both live and recording I'd say that the Savage 60 would win out of the 3. I love the Fireball but it has its quirks, which you either live with or not.

 

[Seizure.]

Blackmoore is ok.
I personally hate the fireball sound for most music.

 

[GeertSamuel]

The blackmore is really nice to use live for both rhythm and lead. But in the studio I think it's not really suitable for anything else then solo's. Just my personal opinion. I've got a ENGL Savage 60 (actually trying to sell it now) that kicks the ass of the blackmore if it goes for any rhythm parts, but then again the blackmore slays the savage on solo's in the studio. But I'd chose the savage always above the blackmore if I had to pick.

 

[Meisterjäger]

Gorath, glad to hear you're loving the Blackstar 4x12! It really is a beast, good choice

The blackmore is really nice to use live for both rhythm and lead. But in the studio I think it's not really suitable for anything else then solo's. Just my personal opinion. I've got a ENGL Savage 60 (actually trying to sell it now) that kicks the ass of the blackmore if it goes for any rhythm parts, but then again the blackmore slays the savage on solo's in the studio. But I'd chose the savage always above the blackmore if I had to pick.

Savage 60 for sale, eh? I'm listenin...

 

[JeroenV]

Thanks for the replies guys, i've deceided that it's either gonna be a blackmore, or a savage120/60, and by the looks of your replies, i think ill go for the the savage, offcourse i will still have to try them both.
As for bands of which i like the guitarsound, think of bands likel; Zyklon(new), Decapitated, but also Rotten Sound and Afgrund, so it's really gotta do well for the harder styles in metal.
I also am planning on starting my own postcore project, so if the savage also sounds great in crunch, it would be awesome!

 

[gorath23]

Gorath, glad to hear you're loving the Blackstar 4x12! It really is a beast, good choice

It is really rather good. In fact it keeps getting better and better as it breaks in. It sounds ludicrously similar to the Recto 4x12, which is never bad

 

[The Unavoidable]

So you guys really like the blackstar huh? I was thinking of getting a Mesa Rec 2x12 as a main recording cab (can't afford a 4x12) but would you consider a blackstar an alternative? And you are talking about the artisan series?

 

[gorath23]

So you guys really like the blackstar huh? I was thinking of getting a Mesa Rec 2x12 as a main recording cab (can't afford a 4x12) but would you consider a blackstar an alternative? And you are talking about the artisan series?

Yep, the red marble tolex one. I can't really comment about the various merits of the Blackstar versus the Mesa as I haven't played the Mesa. I did a fair bit of research prior to buying and although the Mesa came out well for a 2x12, the general consensus was that 4x12's record better. I also requested the specs of the Blackstar to check whether it really was a replica and the dimensions are near identical to -/+ 1cm on only one of the axis. Birch Ply, V30's, handwired etc. It weighs exactly the same too, 49kg or something. Its exactly half the price of the Mesa in Europe too. I don't have clips, else I would post them (I suck at micing amps).

 

[Metaltastic]

Well I don't think hand-wiring speaker leads exactly makes a noticeable difference, but I guess it's a good bragging right!

 

[gorath23]

Well I don't think hand-wiring speaker leads exactly makes a noticeable difference, but I guess it's a good bragging right!

Haha, I think its more advertised as a way of showing how much care is taken over the construction. Actually its hand-wired with thick copper wiring, which does make a difference. You'd be amazed how many companies cheap out in the wiring department.

 

[Meisterjäger]

It's a no brainer when you have an oversized mesa cab next to it, and you can't tell them apart. I must say I do prefer a smaller, punchier cab, but the Blackstar's sound massive

Anyways, back to the Blackmore/Fireball debate, I'm waiting for a unanimous verdict

In all seriousness I'm choosing between these 2 and a 6505, and I can't find Engl dealers with Blackmores in stock anywhere, and I've still never tried a Fireball.

 

[AdamWathan]

My 5150 kills my Blackmore for heavy rhythms. Never tried a Fireball but I think you are better off with a 5150 personally. I'm selling my Blackmore if anyone is interested, $1250 + shipping including the 6 button footswitch.

 

[Meisterjäger]

I'm really digging the guitar tone on Sworn to a Great divide. It's quite low gain and punchy, so I'd be happy having something in the vein of that, eventhough my Valveking is doing a REALLY good job of that right now. Is that something the 5150 also pulls off better than the Engls?

My main problem is I'd like to have that option of massive saturation if I need it, though...

 

[AdamWathan]

Yeah the Blackmore won't do saturation, it's a very clean almost twangy sounding amp... Fireball probably does though, never tried one though.

 

[Metaltastic]

I'm really digging the guitar tone on Sworn to a Great divide. It's quite low gain and punchy, so I'd be happy having something in the vein of that, eventhough my Valveking is doing a REALLY good job of that right now. Is that something the 5150 also pulls off better than the Engls?

My main problem is I'd like to have that option of massive saturation if I need it, though...

EEEEEEKKKK, all kinds of disagreement here on that one - I personally can't stand the rhythm tone on that album, and don't find it to be low-gain at all, though that's not the reason I dislike it; rather, I find it extremely nasally, too much mids in like the 2k range. But yeah, plenty of saturation going on there to my ears, so I would totally go 5150/6505 (same amp, as if it really needs to be said again), or JSX if you need a useable (and amazing) clean channel and a second distortion channel with its own volume control (EXTREMELY useful, for obvious reasons).

 

[Meisterjäger]

Oh, okay... probably knock that one out of the running then. Just to shake things up a bit, is the Single Rec able to pull off some nice sounds? Is it massively different to the Dual Rec? I must say, 50 watts appeals to me more. I've played with some Dual Recs and got a good sound just once... but what a sound! I'm really itching to pick up a Mesa to play with and find that sound again.

EEEEEEKKKK, all kinds of disagreement here on that one - I personally can't stand the rhythm tone on that album, and don't find it to be low-gain at all, though that's not the reason I dislike it; rather, I find it extremely nasally, too much mids in like the 2k range. But yeah, plenty of saturation going on there to my ears, so I would totally go 5150/6505 (same amp, as if it really needs to be said again), or JSX if you need a useable (and amazing) clean channel and a second distortion channel with its own volume control (EXTREMELY useful, for obvious reasons).

I'm 95% sure I've just scored a 6505, so that's sorted! I'm not necessarily digging the actual 'tone' of the Soilwork album, but the punch and cut the guitars have are just mega! I got the same kinda tone by putting the gain on my VK to around 10 o'clock and boosting with an SD-1, which is why I'm figuring it's low gain, in comparison to their previous stuff.

 

[Metaltastic]

I really do not like the Single Rec at all; I've tried it multiple times through a Mesa Standard (OS) cab, and just could not get any saturation out of it, which isn't necessarily bad, except that it also this annoying buzzsaw-esque treble that pisses me off to no end and can't be dialed out (I tried lowering the presence, to no avail). It really felt like a rock amp more than a metal amp, no matter how much tweaking I did (and it was a brand new Single Rectifier Solo 50 head at my local Mesa dealer, not a Recto-verb or anything). Don't ask me how this works from a technical perspective; maybe all modern Rectos are like that, but all I know is the only other one I've spent time with (an old 2-channel Triple Rectifier) was a bajillion times better, and I figure a modern Dual/Triple at least have 3-channels (unlike the single) so you're not as limited.

 

[Meisterjäger]

I've only ever got a Dual Rec to sound anything more than a rock amp once myself. The one time I played through one and it sounded good was when the guy who owned the store was EQing it, and not letting me near the head.

I'm sure I'll be more than happy with the 6505 when she turns up, should be Saturday.

 

[gorath23]

I really do not like the Single Rec at all; I've tried it multiple times through a Mesa Standard (OS) cab, and just could not get any saturation out of it, which isn't necessarily bad, except that it also this annoying buzzsaw-esque treble that pisses me off to no end and can't be dialed out (I tried lowering the presence, to no avail). It really felt like a rock amp more than a metal amp, no matter how much tweaking I did (and it was a brand new Single Rectifier Solo 50 head at my local Mesa dealer, not a Recto-verb or anything). Don't ask me how this works from a technical perspective; maybe all modern Rectos are like that, but all I know is the only other one I've spent time with (an old 2-channel Triple Rectifier) was a bajillion times better, and I figure a modern Dual/Triple at least have 3-channels (unlike the single) so you're not as limited.

I know I always bang on about this record but Insomniums 'Above the Weeping World' was a Single Rec and Framus Cobra one each side. The left channel (SR) sounds huge and meaty. I guess you would need a long, long time to dial it in though.