ENGL: Invader or Savage?

[migreeni]

I know, another ENGL-thread. Sorry about that.

So. I got GAS for ENGL. Serious GAS. How do these two amps compare? I've beenn wanting the Invader so long but I hear good things about the Savage as well.

Pros? Cons? Other descriptions? Clips? Vids? The floor is yours.

I put this same thread up on sevenstring.org. It wasn't much help and I know you guys won't fail me

 

[Fifth_Horseman]

I think this is pretty much subjective, both are great amps in my book but they are voiced differently. The Invader is probably more versatile because of the channel layout.

I liked the Invader 100 better than the Savage when I compared them side by side. Loved the lead sound of the Savage but for rhythm it was lacking something. But maybe I just didn't know how to tweak the Savage (for example I didn't know that BOTH gain knobs are enabled on channel 4...).
And this could turn just the other way round in a recording situation. I have heard fantastic recordings of the Savage...

Well, I finally bought an Invader 100 last month and love the shit out of it, such big chunk and it cuts through much better than my old Fireball. Less fizz than the Fireball as well. So I am happy with my choice.

You seriously need to compare them side by side to find out which one you like better... sorry if this isn't much of a help.

 

[migreeni]

Yes helpful indeed. Thanks. Does anyone know any albums recorded with the Invader and/or Savage?

 

[Fifth_Horseman]

AFAIK Darkane's "Layer of Lies" is Savage. Older Darkane stuff might be as well.

I think with the Invader there's not much out there because it's so new... Bulb has one, here's a clip from him:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=147108&songID=5883182

Did you do a search for clips on this forum? There's some Savage stuff on here and some clips of the Invader as well (by TomIR I think...)

 

[Ermz]

I've played around with the Invader 100 and 150 numerous times, through different cabs, and never liked it. There was always another amp within reach that (IMO) kicked its arse. When it came to the Invader 100, it stood no chance to the Mesa Mark IV and EVH 5150 III. Always so muddy and undefined. Treble knob seems to be a high shelf set to start at high mids, so you boost all this harshness along with the top-end that you really don't want. I just found it largely untweakable for what I want out of an amp. I'd consider using it for death metal or something of the like, but not day-to-day.

Australia doesn't like to stock Savages because as a country we're a collective of inbred cretins with no idea about music or tone. As a result I've never had the pleasure to try one, but from what I've heard these amps record very well. They really live up to their name and sound downright savage.

 

[The Unavoidable]

Yeah that's the problem with ENGLs and such, you have to consider if you really need all that jazz for that price. For example, I was for a long time GASing for an ENGL, most likely savage or invader, but then when I thought about what I actually would use it for, just fat gnarly rythm sounds basically, and then I could just get a 6505 for half the price.

 

[Metaltastic]

Australia doesn't like to stock Savages because as a country we're a collective of inbred cretins with no idea about music or tone. As a result I've never had the pleasure to try one, but from what I've heard these amps record very well. They really live up to their name and sound downright savage.

And I have to agree, the Savage definitely is the more proven amp, and for some other examples of its tone, listen to Dimmu's In Sorte Diaboli (which granted was an SE slaved through a Savage, but still, it's very Savage-like), as well as Blind Guardian's "A Twist in the Myth." Also, Goddamn Guitar on here has one, and has posted some bitchin' clips, I definitely want a Savage, though not for a long, LONG time Probably will just end up getting an e530 instead and making do.

 

[TomiR]

AFAIK Darkane's "Layer of Lies" is Savage. Older Darkane stuff might be as well.

I think with the Invader there's not much out there because it's so new... Bulb has one, here's a clip from him:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=147108&songID=5883182

Did you do a search for clips on this forum? There's some Savage stuff on here and some clips of the Invader as well (by TomIR I think...)

Yeah, I had some clips up, but I deleted them for the time being since I know I and it can do better. Like said, the amp is still pretty new, so there's no "Sneap settings" available

I am still learning how to get the best out of this amp, but I must say, that it is an awesome amp that can do a huge range of killer tones, you just need to learn how to tweak it!

I usually keep the presence pretty high, at about 2o'clock and the depth punch low (at about 9o'clock). I have noticed that whan you have the depth punch low, it really helps bringing out the mids(especially on channel 3).

I would recommend the Invader 100, since the bright mode can be used on all of the channels, where you can only use it at channels 1 and 2 on the 150.

I promise I get some Invader clips up this sunday. What kind of stuff would you guys like to hear?

I can't say anything about the Savage, 'cause I have never tried one.

Jos liikut Raumalla päin joskus, niin eikun kokeilemaan

 

[hoehlentroll]

+1 for savage. don't like the highgain sound of the invader.

 

[Temps]

I played them both side by side this last weekend and ended up picking up an Invader for myself. I still might change it for the Savage - but that isn't very likely. The Invader is much more versatile and has bigger 'gaps' between channels, which is exactly what I wanted going from my 2 channel Stiletto to a 4 channel head.. the Savage only does one sound. It reminded me a lot of a Mark IV actually, mixed with a bit of 5150 for good measure. Punchy, aggressive, a really powerful grinding sound. Very tight and articulate. But it has four channels sharing two EQs, so I couldn't get the range of sounds dialed in I wanted. Channels 2, 3, and 4 all sounded very much alike with just slightly varied amounts of saturation and sag. It had a smooth button that was useless.. made the amp sound like it was low passed at 2khz

The Invader on the other hand, covered a lot more ground. The clean was pretty much the same (awesome), the crunch channel was like the Savage channel 3 with less presence, channel 3 is a really thick, full bodied Recto&5150-style thing that sounds great for the grooving stuff I play, and channel 4 was an incredible lead channel. So much mids, and so smooth! It made even the bridge pickup in my COW sing and usually it is too bright and snappy for that sort of thing. The Invader was also like $300 more tho ahaha

 

[Metaltastic]

Dude, as if $300 matters when you're already paying so much! Post some clips man, I'm dying to hear!

 

[Temps]

With any luck I'll be able to post some clips tonight

 

[Torniojaws]

the Savage only does one sound.

Is it very close to the tone Darkane has on Layers of Lies? Or is that after a lot of processing. To me it sounds like there's too much midrange: not much oomph and depth to it

 

[Ermz]

I keep wondering what I'm missing with the Invader... so many of you seem to like it.

I've tried the damn thing 3 times now, through different cabs each time (ENGL v30, Mesa Recto, and another I forgot) and with 2 different guitars. It pretty much sucked each time. Really frustrating. I pride myself on being able to dial amps reasonably well, since I record the damn things for a living, but the Invader was just useless each time.

I'm gonna need to get it into the studio next to the Triple Rect, 6505 and Mark IV and see how it stacks up where it counts.

 

[Temps]

That's because all those cabs suck well, okay maybe not really. I really didn't like the Invader through the Engl cab I first tried it with - couldn't figure out what the hype was. It was really harsh and bright, and boomy at the same time. Then I lugged my Orange cab into the store, and those problems both went away. It totally made the amp for me - could never play it without an Orange or equivalent cab now (a Mesa with C90s might work, or a Vader).

 

[Fifth_Horseman]

I keep wondering what I'm missing with the Invader... so many of you seem to like it.

I've tried the damn thing 3 times now, through different cabs each time (ENGL v30, Mesa Recto, and another I forgot) and with 2 different guitars. It pretty much sucked each time. Really frustrating. I pride myself on being able to dial amps reasonably well, since I record the damn things for a living, but the Invader was just useless each time.

I'm gonna need to get it into the studio next to the Triple Rect, 6505 and Mark IV and see how it stacks up where it counts.

That might be a taste thing...

I love the 5150 and Rectifier sound on records and also live when other people play it (if they know how to dial it in and can play decently), but whenever I'm playing through one myself I'm not "feeling" it... it's not my sound, not the sound in my head.

I had a 6505+ next to the Invader (and other ENGLs) for comparison in the store... you know I WISH I liked that one better, it would have saved me money and I would then own a tried and true amp for the studio.
But it was always the Invader that put the biggest shiteating grin on my face, and the Fireball next (in all its fizzy glory).

I also had the chance to use a Triple Rec in the studio when recording my bands album last year (the guy bought it after we had recorded the rhythm guitars)... I was trying to dial in a nice lead sound for more than an hour until I thought I had found something nice. Then I plugged back in the Fireball and found the tone I wanted INSTANTLY.

Come reamping time for my other band's album I will see how well the Invader holds up in the studio; at least the guy who runs the studio I chose owns a 5150, so I'm on the save side there.

Long story short: Don't worry if you don't like the Invader. You can rather be glad that you like those studio-proven amps.

 

[TomiR]

That's because all those cabs suck well, okay maybe not really. I really didn't like the Invader through the Engl cab I first tried it with - couldn't figure out what the hype was. It was really harsh and bright, and boomy at the same time. Then I lugged my Orange cab into the store, and those problems both went away. It totally made the amp for me - could never play it without an Orange or equivalent cab now (a Mesa with C90s might work, or a Vader).

A Mesa Recto cab with V30's sounds amazing with the Invader. I have both the Mesa Recto Standard 4X12" and an Orange PPC412.

Both of the cabs sound great with the Invader, the Mesa has more low mids and a fatter tone while the Orange cab is a bit more brighter and has more mids/high mids.

I just got my Z-9 pedal yesterday

 

[TomiR]

I also had the chance to use a Triple Rec in the studio when recording my bands album last year (the guy bought it after we had recorded the rhythm guitars)... I was trying to dial in a nice lead sound for more than an hour until I thought I had found something nice. Then I plugged back in the Fireball and found the tone I wanted INSTANTLY.

I also own a Triple Recto, and it is indeed harder to tweak, since the controls are pretty sensitive. This, however is one of the things I love about the Recto, there are a lot of killer tones available.

The Triple Recto is still my all-time favourite amp, but the Invader is amazing as well.

 

[Metaltastic]

I could never play it without an Orange or equivalent cab now (a Mesa with C90s might work, or a Vader).

Dude, the Orange cab really isn't that unique, it's just another take on the classic 4x12 with rear-mounted V30s, so I'd wager a Mesa Stiletto (formerly Traditional) would sound pretty damn similar it, far more so than one with C90s or a Vader.

 

[Temps]

Dude, the Orange cab really isn't that unique, it's just another take on the classic 4x12 with rear-mounted V30s, so I'd wager a Mesa Stiletto (formerly Traditional) would sound pretty damn similar it, far more so than one with C90s or a Vader.

I've tried Stiletto cabs and thought they were really thin and brittle sounding. It is just Mesa's take on a Marshall 1960 cab and I really don't like those either.. I wouldn't compare it to an Orange at all. I used to have a Recto cab too, didn't like it either.