Epic Joey Cleans

[Babar]

I've noticed one thing with Sturgis' mixes, whenever there's clean singing, it really just shouts "EPIC" to me. I don't know why, but there's something about them. How does he go about getting this? I know you need to get the best possible performance out of the singer, but it sounds much more than that. I also can't tell whether or not the vox are double-tracked, because if they are they must be VERY tight takes because together they sound incredibly smooth. It's not the pitch-shifting 9 cents thing either, because that can sound horrible or robotic, point in case, The Worst Is Yet To Come by Still Remains

Anyone care to offer their thoughts as to how he does it? or Joey, if you're reading this yourself, make me a sammich! Wait...what? Oh yeah, answer my question please!

Oh, and the best examples of this for those of you that aren't familiar with his work are the clean singing in these songs (and pretty much any the devil wears prada song Joey's produced).

[ame=www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob_PeoR0n8c]Asking Alexandria - A Prophecy[/ame]
(quite a lot of clean singing in this one, so any of them really)

[ame=www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu3vjvFb-Qs]Miss May I - Architect[/ame]
(listen from about 1:40)

Cheers guys!

 

[TheWinterSnow]

those cleans don't really do it for me. they scream, whinny emo bitch that has not gone through puberty

and reminds me of attack attack, which is IMHO Epic....





























FAIL!!!!

 

[Line666]

and reminds me of attack attack

That would be because joey produced attack attack.

 

[Babar]

those cleans don't really do it for me. they scream, whinny emo bitch that has not gone through puberty

and reminds me of attack attack, which is IMHO Epic....





























FAIL!!!!

Wow, what a well-articulated, inspirational and mature post

Oh, and it's spelt "whiny". Next of all, what's wrong with screaming? As for not having gone through puberty, I'm pretty sure you couldn't scream like that to save your life, takes a lot more skill than you'd like to think. To do it properly anyway, which these guys do. Oh, and using the term "fail" got old when we finished 8th grade, grow up. If you're not gonna post a decent response, don't post one at all. I don't want your immature shit clogging up my thread. So in return, I posted a rant clogging it up even more. Ironic, you say? Whatever, you deserve it. GTFO of my thread, or respond with a level head at least.

 

[Zack Uidl]

Chill out dude.

He wasn't talking about screaming anyway but was using a figure of speech. It was not a personal attack or anything, maybe unnecessary to this thread, but whatever.....

Those vox don't really sound "epic" to me at all. But I hate that kind of clean singing. I believe I have seen Joey say that he uses a doubler and does not actually double track, but I could be wrong though

 

[Babar]

Chill out dude.

He wasn't talking about screaming anyway but was using a figure of speech. It was not a personal attack or anything, maybe unnecessary to this thread, but whatever.....

Those vox don't really sound "epic" to me at all. But I hate that kind of clean singing. I believe I have seen Joey say that he uses a doubler and does not actually double track, but I could be wrong though

Yeah, I just realised that figure of speech. Shame he typed it in such a way that makes it difficult to understand without reading a few times through. There's this thing called proper punctuation which is needed when trying to use figures of speech like that. Anyway, I over-reacted, but I'm sick of arguing with elitists, especially when it's irrelevant to the thread. He can just get out

 

[JeffTD]

Layering the shit out of tracks... tight doubles, harmonies, and then have the singer do an octave track below the lead vocal. Hard autotune the actual note (not the rise or fall to/from the note), and throw on some split harmonizing.

 

[GarethSE]

Jesus man, grow some thicker fucking skin.
This is the motherfucking sneap forum. We all rat on Sturgis produced bands because they mostly fucking suck. Even Sturgis himself wants to move on and record bands of a higher level of quality IIRC.

How about YOU gtfo the thread and stop taking yourself so damn seriously haha.

Jeff nailed it, I don't really have anything to add aside from that.
Also, welcome to sneap forum.

 

[colonel kurtz]

Layering the shit out of tracks... tight doubles, harmonies, and then have the singer do an octave track below the lead vocal. Hard autotune the actual note (not the rise or fall to/from the note), and throw on some split harmonizing.

this

i've seen joey mention more than a couple times that he quantizes each and every vocal track down to the syllable, tunes everything to perfection, throws down a bunch of harmonies, and that's before any delay/chorus/reverbs/whatever

in short...lotsa practice dude. lots.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Wow, what a well-articulated, inspirational and mature post

Oh, and it's spelt "whiny". Next of all, what's wrong with screaming? As for not having gone through puberty, I'm pretty sure you couldn't scream like that to save your life, takes a lot more skill than you'd like to think. To do it properly anyway, which these guys do. Oh, and using the term "fail" got old when we finished 8th grade, grow up. If you're not gonna post a decent response, don't post one at all. I don't want your immature shit clogging up my thread. So in return, I posted a rant clogging it up even more. Ironic, you say? Whatever, you deserve it. GTFO of my thread, or respond with a level head at least.

saying that you are a hypocrite by lashing back is just too easy at this point, but you did just lower the level head...its called sarcasm, and "scream" was a figure of speech. But yes, the prepubescent feminine male cleans never really do anything for me other than after a couple of minutes begin to irritate me.

But you showed your age more than I in my sarcastic post, but really no biggie, not really looking for a fight, just stating my opinions.

And yes I knew Joey did Attack Attack, its not the production i was referring to its more of the whole scene sound that every hardcore bands is trying to clone from the previous.

But to the production, if you want solid vocals its more about getting the takes in tune and getting a fair amount of chorus on them with a hint of delay and reverb. I would suggest staying away form the autotune because call me old school, but I really like to hear the slight imperfections and vibratos and all those good pitch dynamics.

To me epic vocals would be a deep "gruffy" male voice soaring high in falsetto with a fair amount of vibrato, and its has more to do whit the pitch being sang and not how they are being sang so much, the emotion provoking comes from how the pitch of the vocals relates to the chord the band is playing.

A great example is The Hours That Remain by Mercenary, now that track is Epic and a better example of how a good vocal take can really hit you.

this

i've seen joey mention more than a couple times that he quantizes each and every vocal track down to the syllable, tunes everything to perfection, throws down a bunch of harmonies, and that's before any delay/chorus/reverbs/whatever

in short...lotsa practice dude. lots.

to me that way almost sounds robotic, "phasey" and unnatural. Like I previously said call me old school, but I really like to hear natural ambiance.

 

[Morgan C]

I'd like to know this as well.

I tried doing it a while ago, with a good singer, and while the pitch was all good, it really lacked that sparkly top-end. If you listen to the solo mixes (dez moines, or underoath is another very good one, not joey but v similar style), its got this awesome distortion on the top-end of it. I'm 99% sure its the singer doing it, but its really hard to get that autotune working with distortion.

Anyways, even with a bunch of layering and perfectly quantized/tuned tracks, the takes I recorded weren't nearly as powerful as Joey's. I was working with a female singer though.

 

[smy1]

Dodo/WinterSnow: this is exactly the shit that everyone complained about in the "What's this forum coming to?"-thread.

"This is the motherfucking Sneap Forum" - yea, and it actually has (had?) a reputation for being level-headed and polite. Not for "EPIC FAIL LOLOLOLOLZ", "we rat on Joey's bands cause they fuckin' suck" (oh yea? do they?) or irrelevant posting.

The OP asked how to get the cleans. No one here cares if either of you like the bands. You got production info? Then tell him! You don't? Then get back to the Off-Topic forum ...



Babar: Colonel Curtz & DSS3 had most of the techniques covered. The whole mix comes into play though ...

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Dodo/WinterSnow: this is exactly the shit that everyone complained about in the "What's this forum coming to?"-thread.

"This is the motherfucking Sneap Forum" - yea, and it actually has (had?) a reputation for being level-headed and polite. Not for "EPIC FAIL LOLOLOLOLZ", "we rat on Joey's bands cause they fuckin' suck" (oh yea? do they?) or irrelevant posting.

because my whole second post was horrible and immature and a reason why the forums are going to shit, you should probably re-read that, as I explained my sarcasm

the whole "forum is going to shit" in the behemoth thread were the ones who were simply offended because they couldn't think for themselves or think to a higher level.

Sorry if I stated my opinion with some sarcasm, guess not everybody comprehends sarcasm.

 

[Williamn]

because my whole second post was horrible and immature and a reason why the forums are going to shit, you should probably re-read that, as I explained my sarcasm

the whole "forum is going to shit" in the behemoth thread were the ones who were simply offended because they couldn't think for themselves or think to a higher level.

Sorry if I stated my opinion with some sarcasm, guess not everybody comprehends sarcasm.

Not trying to start a discussion.. But the thing is, Babar dident ask for opinions about the bands he like.. he just asked for advise on how to get the desired clean sound.. Fine if that is not what you consider epic or even good vocals, but then move on and let the people that enjoy it discuss it instead of voicing your own opinion about what is considered good.

IMO I think smy1 nailed it with "You got production info? Then tell him! You don't? Then get back to the Off-Topic forum ..."

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Not trying to start a discussion.. But the thing is, Babar dident ask for opinions about the bands he like.. he just asked for advise on how to get the desired clean sound.. Fine if that is not what you consider epic or even good vocals, but then move on and let the people that enjoy it discuss it instead of voicing your own opinion about what is considered good.

IMO I think smy1 nailed it with "You got production info? Then tell him! You don't? Then get back to the Off-Topic forum ..."

and that is totally understandable. That's why i went and chimed in my production advice, or the little that I could despite a topic that really didn't fit me too well.

but i won't be discussing this debate since it is going way off topic, keep it to what the OP was asking. But anyone who is coming in with the self-righteous statements of, if you don't have anything to say then GTFO is just as guilty in terms of derailing the whole topic and is sinking just as low.

 

[Williamn]

and that is totally understandable. That's why i went and chimed in my production advice, or the little that I could despite a topic that really didn't fit me too well.

but i won't be discussing this debate since it is going way off topic, keep it to what the OP was asking. But anyone who is coming in with the self-righteous statements of, if you don't have anything to say then GTFO is just as guilty in terms of derailing the whole topic and is sinking just as low.

Yeah, forgot to say that it was directed at your first post.. and tbh I know im kinda guilty in terms of derailing the whole topic also.

So with that being said, im out and hopefull Babar could use the info already posted.

 

[Babar]

WinterSnow, as nice as it was to hear your your opinion, I didn't ask for it Jesus, you guys are starting to remind me of the peeps back on Ultimate-Guitar! I've been lurking these forums for a while, never seen that kind of reaction before to a thread. Wowwwww. I'm thinking I SHOULD just get back to Ultimate-Guitar at this rate, haha.

Anyway, for the serious replies, thanks so much guys! I'm definitely gonna have to give all of those things a good play with, see if I can get a decent sound. & for the guy that mentioned high-end distortion, perhaps some tube saturation would suffice? Cheers to the nice guys (Y)

 

[Lasse Lammert]

please end this discussion

Dodo/WinterSnow: this is exactly the shit that everyone complained about in the "What's this forum coming to?"-thread.

"This is the motherfucking Sneap Forum" - yea, and it actually has (had?) a reputation for being level-headed and polite. Not for "EPIC FAIL LOLOLOLOLZ", "we rat on Joey's bands cause they fuckin' suck" (oh yea? do they?) or irrelevant posting.

The OP asked how to get the cleans. No one here cares if either of you like the bands. You got production info? Then tell him! You don't? Then get back to the Off-Topic forum ...



Babar: Colonel Curtz & DSS3 had most of the techniques covered. The whole mix comes into play though ...

this

 

[Munki]

Sorry this is a bit off topic, but wtf....Asking Alexandria came from my town, Dubai, and looking at them now, I can't recognize any of the dudes i've played gigs with before or anthing...I rate they've changed the lineup COMPLETELY or something....their sound's so different as well, back in the day(when they were called End of Reason) they used to be nu-metal and shit. Wonder what happened to em...what a strange change..:zombie:

kthnxbai

 

[zvish]

here are some old Joey's words about that:

"the singing is a buntch of tracks, so its not really one effect. its like 6 different effects, and a lot of different tracks for different purposes

there's a main line, with delay edit: (and reverb)
there's a double of that, with waves doubler on it, turned down
there's a low octave, with antares choir (32 voices mode) turned way down
the harmony has waves doubler on it too

then for the next singing part, there's just one take of each melody line (each different), both with waves doubler



Oh i also must ask when your using the doubler on vocals harmonies and such, are you panning it right or left and adding that doubler plug?
you need to put the mono vocal take on a stereo track
and the doubler is last in the chain but before any delay's or reverbs

then you use the 2-doubler (gives you two virtual voices)

and i literally just click on the "basic doubler" preset, then close the window"
cheers hope this help you