First Single Announced!! and it's not forsaker

[Vincent J.]

Chill out.
Not everybody who comes to a "metal"-forum because the Katatonia forum is there has to like growls. The rules and regulations didn't say "WARNING, IF YOU DON'T LIKE GROWLS YOU WILL BE BANNED".
Please show some respect to someone's taste, however metal or poppy it is...

 

[LifeDepraved]

How many NWOBHM bands had growlers?

 

[Lyre's Harmony]

Chill out.
Not everybody who comes to a "metal"-forum because the Katatonia forum is there has to like growls. The rules and regulations didn't say "WARNING, IF YOU DON'T LIKE GROWLS YOU WILL BE BANNED".
Please show some respect to someone's taste, however metal or poppy it is...

not saying anything about growls friend. even if you don't like em and your a fan of Katatonia, Murder is an incredible experience that should never be missed if your given the chance to hear it. EVER.

 

[noctambulant]

Chill out.
Not everybody who comes to a "metal"-forum because the Katatonia forum is there has to like growls. The rules and regulations didn't say "WARNING, IF YOU DON'T LIKE GROWLS YOU WILL BE BANNED".
Please show some respect to someone's taste, however metal or poppy it is...

I just love how you always exaggerate things haha

 

[old user1]

Growls are good when they are used correctly. At one point growls were something new to people, and they were used to shock and intimidate the listener. The idea was to get the music to sound as nasty and "brutal" as possible.

The problem is that these days there is very little that is even remotely frightening about someone growling. Modern production tends to make the growls too smooth, and a lot of bands have the vocals way too far up or down in the mix. And on top of that, you have literally thousands of bands growling, taking away any sort of contrast that might be generated by a climate of bands with clean vocals. The result is that growling comes to be viewed as "just another vocal style", except that this style takes far less "skill" or "talent" to pull off properly.

I know there will be people who just up and say "growling takes skill! [insert some band here] has an amazing vocalist, I'd like to hear you growl like that!" But that's not the point. Maybe I can't growl like Chris Barnes, but when you compare growling to other forms of singing (if growling can even be considered singing), you'll see that a vocalist who sings has a far wider range of potential emotional output. He or she can sing something sad, something happy, something angry, something bitter, and so on and so on. What can Chris Barnes "sing"? He can grunt out something angry, or... something angry. Yeah, that's about it.

Jonas once said that Katatonia would never bring back the harsh vocals "just for the sake of bringing them back", which to me sounds like he's saying that the band won't bring them back unless they find themselves in a situation where they can't imagine something other than harsh vocals working for a certain track.

I do still enjoy old Katatonia, and I love Opeth and Novembre and all those bands, but that's because most of those bands have a balanced approach to vocals - they know when to stop growling and try something new.

/rant

 

[noctambulant]

Growls are good when they are used correctly. At one point growls were something new to people, and they were used to shock and intimidate the listener. The idea was to get the music to sound as nasty and "brutal" as possible.

The problem is that these days there is very little that is even remotely frightening about someone growling. Modern production tends to make the growls too smooth, and a lot of bands have the vocals way too far up or down in the mix. And on top of that, you have literally thousands of bands growling, taking away any sort of contrast that might be generated by a climate of bands with clean vocals. The result is that growling comes to be viewed as "just another vocal style", except that this style takes far less "skill" or "talent" to pull off properly.

I know there will be people who just up and say "growling takes skill! [insert some band here] has an amazing vocalist, I'd like to hear you growl like that!" But that's not the point. Maybe I can't growl like Chris Barnes, but when you compare growling to other forms of singing (if growling can even be considered singing), you'll see that a vocalist who sings has a far wider range of potential emotional output. He or she can sing something sad, something happy, something angry, something bitter, and so on and so on. What can Chris Barnes "sing"? He can grunt out something angry, or... something angry. Yeah, that's about it.

Jonas once said that Katatonia would never bring back the harsh vocals "just for the sake of bringing them back", which to me sounds like he's saying that the band won't bring them back unless they find themselves in a situation where they can't imagine something other than harsh vocals working for a certain track.

I do still enjoy old Katatonia, and I love Opeth and Novembre and all those bands, but that's because most of those bands have a balanced approach to vocals - they know when to stop growling and try something new.

/rant

takes less skill? damn, I only wish you only knew what you're talking about . Have you ever wondered why did Jonas stopped growling? Lack of growling skills of course

 

[Vincent J.]

not saying anything about growls friend. even if you don't like em and your a fan of Katatonia, Murder is an incredible experience that should never be missed if your given the chance to hear it. EVER.

Hehe, I don't know. There seems to be this crazy longing for old kata songs with grunting live. Personally I enjoy any random song just as much, so I don't really get that enthusiasm, unless you've followed the band from those days of something.
I loved hearing it live though. It's a great song. I would be the last to deny that. But I don't have brave murder day to be honest and I never really felt like getting it. I think it's a bit harsh to judge someone's being a fan by that

 

[Vincent J.]

I just love how you always exaggerate things haha

Yeah I can be a bit black and white to make my point

 

[old user1]

takes less skill? damn, I only wish you only knew what you're talking about . Have you ever wondered why did Jonas stopped growling? Lack of growling skills of course

Have you heard him on the most recent Ayreon album? How about when they perform Murder live? He can growl fine.

Mike always said that they asked him to do the harsh vocals on Brave Murder Day because Jonas had "lost" his ability to growl. I'm assuming he was growling improperly and damaged his throat, or he had some sort of illness. I really doubt they abandoned the harsh vocals because Jonas lacked the necessary "skills".

I could be wrong however. Only the band really knows.

 

[FlawedCoil82]

Ok, but this is a metal forum, and you're not really a metal fan, are you?
Growls are part of metal. And the growls in Enter were BEAUIFUL, they were the perfect companion to her voice. Like in Theatre of Tragedy and such great goth/doom bands.

Have you ever heard the band Echoes Of Eternity? They are a "metal" band with incredible drums and nice guitar leads, but the female vocalist actually sings, and it sounds great! So there is one of the few exceptions to the rule where a metal band can make metal music without grunting or growling. And yes, I do like them (although their newest album AS SHADOWS BURN did not impress me as much musically as THE FORGOTTEN GODDESS did). As far as Within Temptation, the growls only dragged the music down for me. I wouldn't mind if they kept the same musical style they used on ENTER, but I still dont believe they need the growls. I also didn't like the male vocals on "What Have You Done" or "Utopia" either (though I can tolerate them far better than grunts). In that band, I prefer it if it's only Sharon singing. So while I can still appreciate some "metal" music, the vocals must be appealing. But no, I am by no means a hardcore metalhead. I just love Katatonia because Jonas has a very soothing, haunting voice and it is backed by beautifully dark music which compliments his voice perfectly.

And I agree almost entirely with rorix_bladething. I can barely tell the difference from one grunter to the next. They all sound too much like someone trying way too hard to sound 'scary' or demonic and it just comes off as sounding silly to me. In the bands I do like, I am not even a fan of the screaming they use, but I can handle it in small doses. I guess I just am not an aggressive or energetic person. I am someone who would be perfectly content with going to a rock concert and sitting down in a chair in the front row just watching a band play while letting the music wash over me (if I knew I wouldn't get trampled). All that moshing/headbanging/stage diving stuff is not for me. Hell, even though Katatonia is a more depressing sounding band, I am not a depressed person at all either. Sure, I get depressed sometimes about life (it's impossible not to) but overall I am a relatively happy, hopeful christian guy who just happens to love and appreciate the haunting melodies and vocal harmonies in darker atmospheric rock music.
Jack

 

[BlueSky]

 

[FlawedCoil82]

That cracked me up. I must be getting tired.

 

[thisempty]

Have you ever heard the band Echoes Of Eternity? They are a "metal" band with incredible drums and nice guitar leads, but the female vocalist actually sings, and it sounds great! So there is one of the few exceptions to the rule where a metal band can make metal music without grunting or growling. And yes, I do like them (although their newest album AS SHADOWS BURN did not impress me as much musically as THE FORGOTTEN GODDESS did). As far as Within Temptation, the growls only dragged the music down for me. I wouldn't mind if they kept the same musical style they used on ENTER, but I still dont believe they need the growls. I also didn't like the male vocals on "What Have You Done" or "Utopia" either (though I can tolerate them far better than grunts). In that band, I prefer it if it's only Sharon singing. So while I can still appreciate some "metal" music, the vocals must be appealing. But no, I am by no means a hardcore metalhead. I just love Katatonia because Jonas has a very soothing, haunting voice and it is backed by beautifully dark music which compliments his voice perfectly.

And I agree almost entirely with rorix_bladething. I can barely tell the difference from one grunter to the next. They all sound too much like someone trying way too hard to sound 'scary' or demonic and it just comes off as sounding silly to me. In the bands I do like, I am not even a fan of the screaming they use, but I can handle it in small doses. I guess I just am not an aggressive or energetic person. I am someone who would be perfectly content with going to a rock concert and sitting down in a chair in the front row just watching a band play while letting the music wash over me (if I knew I wouldn't get trampled). All that moshing/headbanging/stage diving stuff is not for me. Hell, even though Katatonia is a more depressing sounding band, I am not a depressed person at all either. Sure, I get depressed sometimes about life (it's impossible not to) but overall I am a relatively happy, hopeful christian guy who just happens to love and appreciate the haunting melodies and vocal harmonies in darker atmospheric rock music.
Jack

Can't disagree with you on nothing there .
Its all about tastes.
I don't like brutal death metal, but in this type of metal bands i really think the contrast between female voice and male growls suits the music perfectly. Kind of beauty and the beast, ya know.
Growls are not melodic, they don't contain harmonies, they're just spoken, yelled, BUT i get emotions from them in combination with the music.

 

[FlawedCoil82]

That's fair enough for me. And I do appreciate your respectful reply.