$$$ for MIXING on this forum - > RULES?

[Williamn]

+1,000,000

Audio isn't a hobby for me. Why am I going to waste a few hours of my life to put together a test mix when a kid with a crappy mix that happens to be louder than mine gets the "job" doing it for free?

Or maybe the "client" just prefered the sound of other guys mix ?
No offense of course, have not heard any of your stuff.. just kinda got a sour loser vibe from the post

But while all OPs points sounds decent I could not see it working in any way.. and so what if some people likes a challenge and put hours into a mix for free, don't see anything wrong with that tbh.

 

[GarethSE]

I have nothing against guys doing free mixes because I'm still one of those guys trying to get his name out there any way possible. I try to charge a little bit for my work now when I can but I still do a lot of free shit, which sucks but I guess you could argue I dug this hole for myself by doing free mixes.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

Like with any other art, you get faster with practice. You listen to something, realise what you want it to sound like, and know the basics you need to do to get there. After that, it's fine tuning, fiddling around and experimenting stuff. It doesn't necessarily mean people are just slapping presets on the tracks (though I'm sure that's not exactly uncommon, either). Then again, at least for me, 10 hours of continuous work (with food breaks etc.) after 8 hours of school is pretty normal. I haven't got a life

Dont take me wrong, I dont say that other people just throw presets. What I say is that I cannot do a good mix in only one day. Even with years of experience I doubt I could do that. My ears get tired really quick. Work for long time is no productive for me. But no only that, if I want a really good mix, a mix with identity, that is achieved through small things. For me one day it´s just for working the basics. Just automating things could take a day or more. My workflow is not so good as many of you but I still think that one a day is not enough for anything. But hey this is just an opinion.

 

[Soundlurker]

My ears get tired really quick.

A little offtopic...but this depends, to a large degree, on your monitors and acoustics (!), as well as your monitoring habbits.

A very good mix overall is possible for a day (which actually means for a few hours, because you do get ear fatigue at one point.) Having said that I must admit I've spent several whole days (over)processing a single instrument. But that's not a necessity for you to have a very decent mix. I remember people praising a mix I did when 006 posted the Abhorrent tracks and the funny thing is it's probably the quickest mix I've ever done (2 hours or so).

 

[Erkan]

Only read the first few posts from the "elites" of the forum, and even though I agree with them that too many people here offer free mixes and stuff with cracked plugins, there's really no way of stopping them unless we start a witch hunt and start banning anyone even remotely suspected for using cracked plugins and I don't feel that is the job of this forum to do. I say just let it be and let it run as it has been running already.

If a really serious client comes here and asks for something to get mixed, I think the problem will sort itself automatically. The client should detect which one of us are pros and which ones are sitting in the bedroom with 40gb of cracked software and mixing on a pair of headphones they received as a gift when buying a limited offer meal from McDonalds. You get me? (in reference to the funny movie the OP posted )

If the client can't tell the difference between a pro's mixing and a bedroom-guy-with-cheap-headphones's mixing... well, it's just probably not worth working with that client at all then

 

[Ermz]

These things have a way of sorting themselves out. It's not something to get uptight about or worry over.

If someone is serious about their project, they are not going to shop it around to an array of bedroom guys on a forum. As previously mentioned, they will go through the right channels and contact someone directly who takes their fancy.

The mix competitions are a great way for people to hone their skills, and in all honesty should not even be looked at as employment opportunities a majority of the time. Think of it as free experience, and you won't come off disappointed.

Don't fall for the guys who want you to mix their whole record for $50 and you'll be fine.

 

[exoslime]

If someone is serious about their project, they are not going to shop it around to an array of bedroom guys on a forum. As previously mentioned, they will go through the right channels and contact someone directly who takes their fancy.

The mix competitions are a great way for people to hone their skills, and in all honesty should not even be looked at as employment opportunities a majority of the time. Think of it as free experience, and you won't come off disappointed.

exactly, nothing to add here

---
for me as an artist and songwriter, its very interesting to hear in the different "rate my mix.." and "mix for $$$" threads and what are peope in this great communty are capable of!
I was really impressed on some mixes by some people here, and when the time is coming that our album needs to get mixed.. i will already have my list of people i would love to collaborate with!!

cheers
exoslime

 

[Charles J]

These things have a way of sorting themselves out. It's not something to get uptight about or worry over.

If someone is serious about their project, they are not going to shop it around to an array of bedroom guys on a forum. As previously mentioned, they will go through the right channels and contact someone directly who takes their fancy.

The mix competitions are a great way for people to hone their skills, and in all honesty should not even be looked at as employment opportunities a majority of the time. Think of it as free experience, and you won't come off disappointed.

Don't fall for the guys who want you to mix their whole record for $50 and you'll be fine.

+1. EXACTLY my sentiments on the matter. I've always seen the 'mix competitions' as nothing more than FREE experience and the ability to get some WORRY-FREE raw tracks to mess about with. The majority of the time I only use the tracks to test new plug-ins, maybe practice my drum editing skills or try some crazy new effects when I have some down time.

Every good band I've worked with has come to ME and asked if I would be willing to work on their project and these projects have also, consequently, been the most important to me as an engineer!

As Ermz so elegantly put, these things will work themselves out. Any band with a hint of talent will be wanting to work with someone that has already produced/mixed other bands that they all like and will find the necessary path to contact the producer/mixer in question.

Hell, a local band I've mixed quite a few songs for is having our very own James Murphy mix their newest material! =D

 

[Ermz]

^ To expand a bit on that, back when the earlier days of the forum were in full swing and we were all coming to suss out and establish these techniques that pass off as 'common knowledge' around here these days, I gained a great deal from mixing competitions. In particular trying my best to match CJ's work, who was always several steps ahead both in his intuition about where the music needed to go, and how to get it there.

In recent times I like to think I've come more into my own, but without that crucial development phase none of it would have happened.

So once again, if you treat it solely as an educational experience and don't expect anything more than that, you will be FAR more richly rewarded than if you fight for scraps with the other guys trying to out-L2 each others' mixes.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

^ To expand a bit on that, back when the earlier days of the forum were in full swing and we were all coming to suss out and establish these techniques that pass off as 'common knowledge' around here these days, I gained a great deal from mixing competitions. In particular trying my best to match CJ's work, who was always several steps ahead both in his intuition about where the music needed to go, and how to get it there.

In recent times I like to think I've come more into my own, but without that crucial development phase none of it would have happened.

So once again, if you treat it solely as an educational experience and don't expect anything more than that, you will be FAR more richly rewarded than if you fight for scraps with the other guys trying to out-L2 each others' mixes.

very true!

 

[Charles J]

Thanks a lot, Ermz!

I only wish I hadn't of 'taken a break' from engineering for as long as I did. Not only am I now trying to 'learn' an entirely different rig but, things have come SO FAR in SUCH a short amount of time (as far as ITB productions go) it's taking ages just to find which tools best fit my go-to needs.

I kind of forgot which plug-ins and things I use to turn to instinctively (and without all my old session files, I must rely solely on my memory, oh god, lol) but I think it's a good thing. Forcing me out of my comfort-zone to try new things and become a better engineer because of it.

I've got to hit you up w/a new version of that song I sent! I A/B'd the version I sent you to the newest incarnation and the difference is appalling! (in the best possible way, hahaha) =D

 

[Ermz]

It happens, dude. When my right ear blew out about 2 years ago, it set me back a long way. In some ways I'm still trying to find my feet again, trying to mix naturally with an inherently unbalanced stereo image

FWIW your last mix was killer and you'll find your feet again in no time.

There is no big secret to this ITB thing - just better tools for us to use over in native land. You already know as far as compression goes the CL1B, CLA Pack and Old Timer are all tits. Waves E-channel is still the go-to strip, along with the URS, and basically anything for surgical EQ work will do. Saturation and stuff is still a bit of a low-point, with most just using whatever they can get their hands on. General word is that Nebula currently obliterates everything ITB as far as 'character' and 'color' go. Verbs are still a bit of a weak point, but you've sussed that out with the tits M7 impulses, which are our best compromise. Lexicon releasing their algorithms in native should fix that up very shortly though. Echoboy and Line 6 still has killer delays. For FX just anything that works; Audio Damage is my trip.

After I realized that most of my favourite 'vibe' records were done largely analogue, I've tried to adopt an 'OTB' mindset. Using modeling plug-ins in ways similar to how they would be used with a real rig. Preface everything either with the E-channel, or MixSaturator to give it some console/tape vibe if needed, and just take it from there with 'outboard' plug-ins like the CL1B, Old Timer and whatever else.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

A little offtopic...but this depends, to a large degree, on your monitors and acoustics (!), as well as your monitoring habbits.

A very good mix overall is possible for a day (which actually means for a few hours, because you do get ear fatigue at one point.) Having said that I must admit I've spent several whole days (over)processing a single instrument. But that's not a necessity for you to have a very decent mix. I remember people praising a mix I did when 006 posted the Abhorrent tracks and the funny thing is it's probably the quickest mix I've ever done (2 hours or so).

Yeah, the monitors and the acustic has special relevance too. The time we will spend in mix also depend on tracking quality. Some may take a lot of time, others dont. I dont know about the guys here but after a few hours of mixing everything sounds like shit to me, even the best mix. That´s the time I need to stop because I lost my perception of quality. But mixing in 2 hours it´s really a record! But we must also know when to stop. Sometimes we keep pushing the things without reason and without improvements.

 

[the_drip]

very off topic

Im Not a producer by any means..but Even when trying to See it from Both points of view (producer/or bands) i still have some disscomfort talking about a price minimum. Even resonably succesfull metal bands Like cephalic carnage, bands who sell 30-40 thousand copies of there cd's See Zero dollars in return for it. They make there money off Merchandise On tour...and still dont make enough to live off,a greater majority still have a shit job that they have to come back to. from what ive learned If thats the bracket of bands you guys are producing then your not going to be dealing with bands off the streets in your local towns your going to be getting your money from the lables for the recordings and probably dealing with them directly when it comes to expenses.. not the bands... I feel like expenses are the number one reason for good unsigned bands to break up and buy laying a price minimum you are only adding to the problem. I know its not ethical and i know its not The RIGHT thing to do...But why not skip the standard pricing contract with bands you like....Cut Big deals With Good bands and High prices for Shitty bands...Youll help weed out the crap while letting quality slip through...and youll still be able to make a living....You all probably think im a retard and come back saying good and bad is a matter of opinion...but you guys listen to more music then anyone..and even though your probably listening to production more then anything i know you still can tell a shit band from an original. Im in a band that i really care about and i know im being biased but the closer we come to sucomming to The fate of Credit card Debt Sucking us under the More Frustrated i become when i begin to read about how its just a business....makes me wanna quit, Cause if i wanted to be part of a business instead of a band then thats the path i would chosen....I suppose the deeper i dive into the producing asspect...who knows...mabey i will have changed my ideas in two years or so...but as of right now The state Of Metal and its Business Kinda of make me wanna throw up.

I realize this has become a rant of my own issues and i know i didnt read through the post completely so to chew me out or not to chew me out i leave it up to everyone else. If producing Metal music is just a "business" i think you should just produce R &B instead...youd make alot more money.

I would like producer's only to remember why they Love metal music in the first place and Try to add a little of that passion Into the desicions that they make when it comes to the business aspects......Youll be able to Pull alot more Love of what you do out of what it is your actually doing( if that makes any sence...

alright ...gotta go to work now to pay for my metal band.

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

very off topic

Im Not a producer by any means..but Even when trying to See it from Both points of view (producer/or bands) i still have some disscomfort talking about a price minimum. Even resonably succesfull metal bands Like cephalic carnage, bands who sell 30-40 thousand copies of there cd's See Zero dollars in return for it. They make there money off Merchandise On tour...and still dont make enough to live off,a greater majority still have a shit job that they have to come back to. from what ive learned If thats the bracket of bands you guys are producing then your not going to be dealing with bands off the streets in your local towns your going to be getting your money from the lables for the recordings and probably dealing with them directly when it comes to expenses.. not the bands... I feel like expenses are the number one reason for good unsigned bands to break up and buy laying a price minimum you are only adding to the problem. I know its not ethical and i know its not The RIGHT thing to do...But why not skip the standard pricing contract with bands you like....Cut Big deals With Good bands and High prices for Shitty bands...Youll help weed out the crap while letting quality slip through...and youll still be able to make a living....You all probably think im a retard and come back saying good and bad is a matter of opinion...but you guys listen to more music then anyone..and even though your probably listening to production more then anything i know you still can tell a shit band from an original. Im in a band that i really care about and i know im being biased but the closer we come to sucomming to The fate of Credit card Debt Sucking us under the More Frustrated i become when i begin to read about how its just a business....makes me wanna quit, Cause if i wanted to be part of a business instead of a band then thats the path i would chosen....I suppose the deeper i dive into the producing asspect...who knows...mabey i will have changed my ideas in two years or so...but as of right now The state Of Metal and its Business Kinda of make me wanna throw up.

I realize this has become a rant of my own issues and i know i didnt read through the post completely so to chew me out or not to chew me out i leave it up to everyone else. If producing Metal music is just a "business" i think you should just produce R &B instead...youd make alot more money.

I would like producer's only to remember why they Love metal music in the first place and Try to add a little of that passion Into the desicions that they make when it comes to the business aspects......Youll be able to Pull alot more Love of what you do out of what it is your actually doing( if that makes any sence...

alright ...gotta go to work now to pay for my metal band.

Even though I still know jack shit about the business side of music to be honest, I do know it's absolutely impossible for an AE to pick only the good bands to work with before he reaches a level far beyond the reach of most of us. At least that's the way it is up here.

Most hobbies cost money. If you're into golf, you can either get a club from a flea market for five bucks and swing some rocks in your back yard if that satisfies you, or you can get proper equipment and pay the annual fee to play at a golf club. You like cars? They aren't free. Gas is expensive. Parts can be expensive. Cooking? The pots and kettles cost money. So do good raw ingredients. Nothing's free.

Maybe I got your point completely wrong, though. Don't be offended if I did

 

[the_drip]

Even though I still know jack shit about the business side of music to be honest, I do know it's absolutely impossible for an AE to pick only the good bands to work with before he reaches a level far beyond the reach of most of us. At least that's the way it is up here.

Most hobbies cost money. If you're into golf, you can either get a club from a flea market for five bucks and swing some rocks in your back yard if that satisfies you, or you can get proper equipment and pay the annual fee to play at a golf club. You like cars? They aren't free. Gas is expensive. Parts can be expensive. Cooking? The pots and kettles cost money. So do good raw ingredients. Nothing's free.

Maybe I got your point completely wrong, though. Don't be offended if I did

Im not offended,

Bands just having a shit time....Had alot of Issues with Labels over money in the past...and we are just In Serious debt enough so that our next release will probably be our last if we cant reclaim some money off it... And being still in the process of oweing our producer more money It just seems pretty hopeless. I shouldnt have written anything at all, It isnt really my place to ask people to do anything especially since i havent produced anything of mentioning myeslf, and regardless of what happens im still going to write and record music myself but it will probably be just for my own enjoyment.

Alot of empty promises have made me skeptical About everything in the Music Industry Especially ones to do with money.....I didnt mean to get out of shape.... and I do Understand that All the bands asking for free mixes Shouldnt be going about it like that.... I think that in the perfect music world bands Would be able to Live comfortably as well as producers with no one getting the short end of the stick especially Since The comon goal is the Love of music. Im still figureing out How to acheive that balance Especially when Label's are involved Doesnt really seem possible...Hence my Frustration whenever money is brought up....

Meee and trust issues

 

[Soundlurker]

You all probably think im a retard

Nah, I think you raised some valid points, although some of the stuff you mentioned is probably off topic. It would be cool if you used a spell-checker and didn't capitalise letters randomly though

BTW, Matriden rules!

 

[the_drip]

Ya I'm sorry about the typos, And the complete lack of grammar.

 

[poidaobi]

How much does everyone charge for reamping?

$50 a song? Is that too much?

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Depends on the project. ... I've got a per song rate, but if it's a full album, I'll give a nice reasonable rate for the whole thing. Bass & leads included.