"RIAA Jury Finds Minnesota Woman Liable for Piracy, Awards $222,000"
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/riaa-jury-finds.html
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/riaa-jury-finds.html
For those that download music
- Thread starter deanbailey
- Start date
she didn't just illegally download... she also put her whole damned library up for grabs via KAZA..... she was asking for it. she had the chance to settle for a tiny fraction of what the judgment is for against her now.
that's really funny.... would be even funnier if every band/artist were millionaires and if illegal downloading were really not affecting the industry in a way that filtered down to hurting the artists seriously. sadly, 98% of artists.. including those you and i expect to keep kicking out quality albums every year, are not even close to being rich... or even "well off". you know what's really funny? the way so many illegal down-loaders feel that the legaility of what they are doing is a matter of "opinion" or a certain way of "looking at it".... actually it's a matter of law, international law in fact, and not opinion at all. and it's a law that actually protects artists AND producers/engineers.... the majority of which service niche markets as it stands and sacrifice a lot of things in life to make this music you claim to love.... i.e., Retirement Plans and Health Insurance.
anyway... goddamn mp3's suck. as does FLAC, AAC, ATRAC, and all the rest. blah.... anyway... keep up the downloading folks.... you're writing your own future.
btw, i've made well over 20 albums in my career... i have gotten by and had fun.. and done ok at different times... but i have never gotten rich and still i devoted my life to making music. I managed to just break even most of the time. that's good enough for me, i'm good as long as i can get money to make good records. i'm done though the split second that i lose any hope of even breaking even... that's just economics.. and common sense (though new bands that are still trying to break and establish a fanbase will often take a loss for a while while they work on that, and that's normal). there has yet to be a single business model put forth to replace the current system that will make everyone just downloading any music they want for free a viable option.
some more simple facts, in the furtherance of debunking some seriously misguided myths that illegal downloaders looove to wield:
1. touring does not pay for making records, promoting records, manufacturing records, or distributing records. touring, for 98% of bands in the world does not even pay for itself..... bands need tour support from their label, which comes from... guess where? you got it, CD sales.
2. Merchandise sales do not pay for records or anything related to them either... it can augment touring costs and, if the merch sells decently, afford the band the ability to pay their rent and electric back home while they are on the road.
so, downloading the album illegally and justifying it to yourself and others by saying "well i'll buy a ticket to the show and buy a shirt while i'm there so it's ok i didn't actually buy the CD even though i have the music"..... no, it's not really. tell yourself that all you want... but it's not.
another myth.... by putting your library up for grabs on kaza or related shit you are NOT providing "free advertisement".. that's another weak rationalization. there are plenty of places to hear samples of literally anything you want to hear... that are legal.
all of you who engage in heavy illegal downloading and sharing are shooting yourselves, and any potential future career you may have... be it as an artist or engineer/producer, in the foot. making good music at great quality will always cost money and time (which is also money).
anyway... goddamn mp3's suck. as does FLAC, AAC, ATRAC, and all the rest. blah.... anyway... keep up the downloading folks.... you're writing your own future.
btw, i've made well over 20 albums in my career... i have gotten by and had fun.. and done ok at different times... but i have never gotten rich and still i devoted my life to making music. I managed to just break even most of the time. that's good enough for me, i'm good as long as i can get money to make good records. i'm done though the split second that i lose any hope of even breaking even... that's just economics.. and common sense (though new bands that are still trying to break and establish a fanbase will often take a loss for a while while they work on that, and that's normal). there has yet to be a single business model put forth to replace the current system that will make everyone just downloading any music they want for free a viable option.
some more simple facts, in the furtherance of debunking some seriously misguided myths that illegal downloaders looove to wield:
1. touring does not pay for making records, promoting records, manufacturing records, or distributing records. touring, for 98% of bands in the world does not even pay for itself..... bands need tour support from their label, which comes from... guess where? you got it, CD sales.
2. Merchandise sales do not pay for records or anything related to them either... it can augment touring costs and, if the merch sells decently, afford the band the ability to pay their rent and electric back home while they are on the road.
so, downloading the album illegally and justifying it to yourself and others by saying "well i'll buy a ticket to the show and buy a shirt while i'm there so it's ok i didn't actually buy the CD even though i have the music"..... no, it's not really. tell yourself that all you want... but it's not.
another myth.... by putting your library up for grabs on kaza or related shit you are NOT providing "free advertisement".. that's another weak rationalization. there are plenty of places to hear samples of literally anything you want to hear... that are legal.
all of you who engage in heavy illegal downloading and sharing are shooting yourselves, and any potential future career you may have... be it as an artist or engineer/producer, in the foot. making good music at great quality will always cost money and time (which is also money).
elmuchoescadawg
Member
There is no where else in the world where you would even be in a position to say Ill buy items 1 and 2 but number 3 Ill just take anyway. You couldnt go to a restaurent and pay for the starter and main and just take the desert. Its the same as buying the ticket and the shirt and downloading the album.
The other one you forgot James is the people who download it to see if they like it and then buy it if they do!!
We didnt always have the option and it only exists because there is demand for it. If the demard goes then so does the illegal downloading.
James is totally right about harming your future careers as well.
The other one you forgot James is the people who download it to see if they like it and then buy it if they do!!
We didnt always have the option and it only exists because there is demand for it. If the demard goes then so does the illegal downloading.
James is totally right about harming your future careers as well.
smy1
Member
Nobody really does that, though. The amount of CDs bought because of downloading is probably 0,001% ...
Additionally: my label said that with the press attention and scene buzz ("Newcomer of The Year 2006") my electro project received from the getgo, they would have sold 7-10 times as many records just 5-7 years ago. For me that means I can't tour because they won't/can't pay toursupport and buy-on. Only the fact that I make a decent living with my main job allows me to make music at a semi-professional level at all.
no, didn't forget....was waiting for it .. just didn't expect it from someone who otherwise agreed with me...
bottom line is a LOT of illegal downloaders will tell you that this is what they do..... i know a few, and they generally do not. they just continue enjoying the album...for free, indefinitely.... or they download 10 albums they love and buy 1 or 2 of them, continuing to listen to the other 8 or 9 and enjoying them indefinitely. this is so common... and screwed up... that i just can't help but laugh when i hear this particular rationalization. There's plenty of places to hear samples on line to tell if you'll like a new CD release... plenty: from label sites, band sites, label myspace, band myspace, amazon, cd universe, etc. etc.
i love the guys that send the albums they've stolen to buddies and say "hey, i turned him on to this band.. he wouldn't have known about them otherwise... now he'll go to the show"..... this is also nonsense because did you really need to give him the entire CD for him to "get turned on" to the band.... could you not have just sent him the mypsace and amazon links or something? do you not care whether or not there's any money for you favorite bands to ever do another CD? it's heading that way folks.
and i understand that some people only download very rare, out of print CD's...... well, many who say this use this excuse to download anything they can't find in a local store... and don't even bother looking for a re-issue source on-line first. anyway, i'm not talking about the guys that download old, out of print/impossible to find titles really... just look for a place to legitimately order online first folks.
i hope your hard drives crash, ya illegal downloading baztids....
elmuchoescadawg
Member
Actually i totally agree with you. I wasnt defending this approach at all. When I was a kid I used to get taped copies of things from friends but they sounded aweful so Id buy the original. This is no different and just as illegal. Now Im older and wiser and work with bands I couldnt condone any type of copying or downloading.
i was a tape trader too.. obscure demos mostly, and this isn't the same at all... taped demos and shit where MEANT to be traded... albums, well they just didn't sound good taped, at least not for long, so you'd buy them... but see, there was no internet then. now you can click your mouse and upload a very "high quality" mp3 that sounds better than any cassette copy ever did, to where thousands can instantly download it... it's not like those people can't just go to myspace or amazon or some other source to hear samples to decide if they want to buy or not. no, it isn't the same as tape trading with the internet and mp3's these days.. it's way, way worse. tape trading as i mentioned helped bands a lot because it was their demos and they wanted them to get around.. i know i did when i did the disincarnate demos in 92. and bands today give away their demos online in mp3 format... it's great.. i love the internet for this. Bands can promote themselves and give away their music if they want to.... it's brilliant! but too many people use it to steal albums that shitloads of money was spent making, not to mention the time and effort and talent of quite a few people from the band, to the production team, to the cover artist.. etc etc., that are being marketed for sale and embody copyrighted intellectual property. and this IS hurting the industry and marginalizing the futures of all who would follow the path of the musician or audio professional. i applaud the RIAA for taking aggressive action, and they will continue. Our economy here in the US relies heavily on the entertainment dollar, as do those of most countries, so the governments of the world will not be "stepping in" to stop the RIAA from bring these suits to bear... quite the opposite... and for all our sakes, i hope it works.
elmuchoescadawg
Member
Agreed but in that case I will confess that as a kid it wasnt demos I was getting taped copies of but I would never have discovered Suicidal Tendencies any other way. We also did a lot of trading of home made compilation albums
yes, yes.... as i mentioned.... "albums, well they just didn't sound good taped, at least not for long, so you'd buy them"
and there was no internet... the very nature of the internet destroys the premise that "rationalizers" love to use when the say "it's the same as tape-trading back in the day"... no, it's not.
i know that you know this... we are in agreement, not arguing with you.
and there was no internet... the very nature of the internet destroys the premise that "rationalizers" love to use when the say "it's the same as tape-trading back in the day"... no, it's not.
i know that you know this... we are in agreement, not arguing with you.
The one thing that never seems to come up (that much) re: this topic is the quality issue. I buy CD's as I want to hear the music I buy in it's best quality readily accessible format. Every time I hear an mp3 (even encoded at 320kbps) I can hear half the top/bottom end shaved off and it drives my ears nuts.
That, and the wow factor from folks when they see the full racks of thousands of discs and vinyl when they walk thru the hall at my place
That, and the wow factor from folks when they see the full racks of thousands of discs and vinyl when they walk thru the hall at my place
ha ha... yeah, people usually shit when when they see my CD and Vinyl collections... and yeah, quality is a key issue for me. i have an iPod but listen to the actual CD or Vinyl at home.
elmuchoescadawg
Member
Totally agree, dont hurt to re affirm and discuss it. You never know we might not be the only ones who agree.
Nebulous
Daniel
Agreed. Not only the quality and collection, but the fact that music is an artform, one which takes on the visual aspects of the package/ booklet to convey it's messege and create the experiance.
Part of the reason that I hold Evergrey's In Search Of Truth as my favourite album is that it uses the whole package to create a feeling. I listen to the CD and can imagine the booklet and cover art, and vice versa.
Part of the reason that I hold Evergrey's In Search Of Truth as my favourite album is that it uses the whole package to create a feeling. I listen to the CD and can imagine the booklet and cover art, and vice versa.
CD Collections are an especially good way to get to know someone as well. I'm a strong believer in tastes in music (or art itself) being a reflection of the person. I can't remember the last time someone asked to go through the songs on my mp3 player (yes....I have one too!...a Creative Vision:M) but my CD/Record collection is very accessible.
Case in point was with my girlfriend. The first time she came over to my place she went through my CD collection and laughed her arse off. She knew that she was getting Slayer rather than Britney. I think she was relieved to be honest.....but then again I don't know what she thought when she saw those Bang Tango albums
Case in point was with my girlfriend. The first time she came over to my place she went through my CD collection and laughed her arse off. She knew that she was getting Slayer rather than Britney. I think she was relieved to be honest.....but then again I don't know what she thought when she saw those Bang Tango albums
Jarkko Mattheiszen
The FU guy.
CD Collections are an especially good way to get to know someone as well. I'm a strong believer in tastes in music (or art itself) being a reflection of the person. I can't remember the last time someone asked to go through the songs on my mp3 player (yes....I have one too!...a Creative Vision:M) but my CD/Record collection is very accessible.
Case in point was with my girlfriend. The first time she came over to my place she went through my CD collection and laughed her arse off. She knew that she was getting Slayer rather than Britney. I think she was relieved to be honest.....but then again I don't know what she thought when she saw those Bang Tango albums
Shit, I've gotta hide my Engelbert Humperdinck album! Agreed on your point, though. I often find myself not getting along with people who only listen to the stuff that gets the most frequent radio play. But then again, I'm very picky
The 24 shared songs that were the subject of the lawsuit.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/trial-of-the-ce.html
They'll put a mother of two into bankruptcy for these poor artists.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/trial-of-the-ce.html
They'll put a mother of two into bankruptcy for these poor artists.
are you sure they didn't sue her for bad taste? 
She should release that as a "music to do community service by" compilation.
She should release that as a "music to do community service by" compilation.
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