For those that download music

CD Copy protection's been around for a while (my copy of Massive Attack's 1998 album Mezzanine, for instance). Not sure if they've changed the technology though as you used to apparently be able to override with a swift stroke of a Sharpie.

I believe it was deemed unlawful in the UK at one point though and I haven't seen it on any new discs for a long time.
 
Technically that's right. The music belongs to the record label for the time that is specified in the recording contract.
no, you are wrong... the recording belongs to the label... not the song, though most contracts stipulate that for a period of time... which is generally during the contract term and a specified time after, the band not be able to re-record the same song in order to protect the value of the master recording they paid for.

this is a tough one for some people to wrap their heads around.... they hold the copyright on the RECORDING and the performances embodies therein.... they do not own the song. Thusly, if you re-record a signed band's song and release it as your own without giving proper credits or listing the correct publisher info it's not the record company that will come after you... it will be the publisher, which is sometimes the band themselves if they handle their own publishing administration or a separate company that the band made a publishing deal with (usually in exchange for a publishing advance). Some record companies have publishing departments and try to make publishing deals with many of their bands, giving them separate advances (and separate contracts) for the two.

so, for those who love to think they are somehow "sticking it to the man" by illegally downloading and not buying, based on some misguided justification of "the labels keep all the money anyway, the band never sees any royalties" , i'd advise you to educate yourself a bit better on the subject. Bands can and often do receive royalties after they have re-couped their advance... first of all, "the man" is who pays for the recordings, manufacturing, distribution, promotion, etc. etc..... second, there are 4 sources of royalty income, not only the part from which advances are recouped.... as long as your lawyer has had any cross-collateralization clauses removed, which is the normal thing to do.

i'm not the "defender of the labels" you know.... i've been jacked too... but the amounts were too small to warrant a lawsuit and potential legal fees... but hey, without those labels the albums never would have been made... or at the very least never manufactured, mass produced, and distributed and promoted world wide... and you never would have heard of me.

i actually heard an argument the other day, from an actual recording artist, though a misguided one, that bands can all just record themselves and give their music away free online..... his theory being that on the strength of that home made recording and subsequent mandatory myspace page... the band could tour and support themselves with tour and merch money. ha ha ha ha. The only bands that will be able to do this, in general (there's always a few exceptions to anything), will be bands that are already established and famous and do well and have the money to hire good producers and/or studios... and got that way off the back of the labels that paid for all the recordings and videos that made them famous.

Prince is doing it, Radiohead i think is doing it now.... and more power to them... but lets just see you try with your band before you've ever done anything. ;)
 
Bowie also tried it years ago....and failed miserably costing him a chunk of his personal fortune.

And Prince said a while back that he'd not be trying the things he is now without being in position he is now....basically a household name. Despite his many wranglings and disputes with his former record companies he has said that he'd never had made it without them.
 
I will quote some things that you may have not read:
i read the whole thing...

so, becuase she says "i didn't do it".... and ... "they planted the evidence" we should all just immediately believe it? are you saying it was a corrupt judge??

lol, no more likely she's just like the drug dealers that get busted in front of the cameras of the TV show "Cops".... could you imagine if the cops just said "ooohh, ok... well i guess you can go then, have a nice day, sorry for the misunderstanding" to every guy who says "it's not mine, i was holdin' it for friend, i swear Ociffah (sic)" when they find crack in his underpants?

there's more than enough people damned well blatantly stealing and sharing for the RIAA or a Judge to waste time and risk charges and disbarment respectively to railroad a poor little single mom who's innocent.. Sorry, the Judges decision bears more weight to me than the woman's denials.

but listen, ok.. i didn't turn her in... alright? so stop sweatin' me.
 
Bowie also tried it years ago....and failed miserably costing him a chunk of his personal fortune.

And Prince said a while back that he'd not be trying the things he is now without being in position he is now....basically a household name. Despite his many wranglings and disputes with his former record companies he has said that he'd never had made it without them.
exactly... thanks Sparky... i was researching for this info to make sure i got it right. you beat me to it....
:kickass:
 
You see, the problem here is not what she said or done. It´s how the rules are written and how the guys works. The way it is, if RIAA decides to sue YOU today, they don´t need to prove anything. Just say: "You steal from me. Give me all your money you will ever make". And the "law" will be with them.
 
Another general aside (while in the habit): a lot of folks seem to think of those that run labels as corporate "fat cat" suits lighting cigars with flaming hundred dollar bills. That may be the case for some of the majors, but it tends to be a different picture at the other end of the spectrum. The guys that run small labels are usually fans first and foremost. Their intensions are initially because they love the music and could probably be making a hell of a lot more money doing something else, putting in a lot less time and effort. Those guys are fewer in number now too because of the state of things.

There are obviously some scumbags operating small labels too, but they tend to get found out before too long. If they're in it to extort money out of bands, there's little of that to be had at the moment so they'll find something else to do before too long.

I'm owed cash from labels that I'll never see but I always knew that was a possibility heading into the deal. In one case it's a guy I know very well and trust. If he had the cash, I'd have mine. Someone else in the chain simply dropped the ball and screwed us both. In another case I got ripped off blind but thankfully know a very good solicitor who I will owe pints to for many years to come....
 
no, you are wrong... the recording belongs to the label... not the song, though most contracts stipulate that for a period of time... which is generally during the contract term and a specified time after, the band not be able to re-record the same song in order to protect the value of the master recording they paid for.

That's what I meant, essentially. In the end it comes up to the same, because we are talking about the recording being used/downloaded/shared.
 
You see, the problem here is not what she said or done. It´s how the rules are written and how the guys works. The way it is, if RIAA decides to sue YOU today, they don´t need to prove anything. Just say: "You steal from me. Give me all your money you will ever make". And the "law" will be with them.
ok man, whatever you say.

that's all i can say to that. you're wrong and it's a ridiculous claim that even the facts of this case do not support at all, but whatever... rock on.

btw, are you a conspiracy theory buff? just wondering.
 
Yea, don't steal music. Unless of course you're in Australia and it's any NIN stuff, then steal away. Just tell em Trent told ya to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ5iHaV0dP4

"Last time I was here, I was doing a lot of complaining about the ridiculous prices of CDs down here. And that story got picked up and got carried all around the world and now my record label all around the world hates me, because I yelled at them, I called them out for being greedy fucking assholes. I didn't get a chance to check, has the price come down at all? I see a no, a no, a no... Has anyone seen the price come down? Okay, well, you know what that means - STEAL IT. Steal away. Steal and steal and steal some more and give it to all your friends and keep on stealin'. Because one way or another these motherfuckers will get it through their head that they're ripping people off and that that's not right."
 
good for him.... i applaud that... but he doesn't decide for anyone other artist. anyway, he's another one that's big enough to do it on his own without a label... but yet he takes the money. *scratches head*
 
lol so a band starting out for two guitas, bass and drummer.....heres your inventory

1000 TC Electronics effects
1000 Furman power conditioner
1000 Korg rack tuner
500 ISP decemintor
2000 Peavey Head
1500 Cabinet
3000 3 * decent guitars

1000 TC Electronics effects
1000 Furman power conditioner
1000 Korg rack tuner
500 ISP decemintor
4000 Mesa Head
1500 Cabinet
3000 3 * decent guitars

4000 Drumkit
1500 Cymbals
900 Iron Cobras

3000 Bass Rig
4000 3 * bass guitars

1500 RME Fireface
4000 Computer to record + software

3000 Record album @ 600 day * 10 days
4000 Mix Album
1000 Master Album

1500 CD's print (just to ship to record companies)
2000 Artwork
1000 T-Shirts
500 Stickers
-----------------------------------------------------
53,900 Total

not to mention the rehearsal room rent, strings, sticks, petrol etc..........

and some bastid is downloading you albums for free ???
 
you left out producer fee.

and 10 days is a raw hardcore album.

Nevermore spent 6 weeks making TGE.... and this is considered fairly quick for a top notch metal album, 8 weeks is more like it.
4000 is budget mixing... ask andy if he'll mix your album for that much, ;)

1000 is "B" level mastering.... top mastring guys, like Jensen and Douches, cost more.
 
Before I left Australia CD prices were extortionate back then (over 10 years ago). The pricing aspect is a real issue everywhere though. Simply jacking prices won't change much and if anything, will make things worse. This is simply a case of a company trying to recover some lost revenue by price inflation per-unit. The business model is fucked if the price is unreasonable.

I make a pretty decent living but baulk at the price sometimes and seek out cheaper alternatives once things get beyond the realm of reasonable. Someone mentioned in another thread the mail order cost for the new Soilwork is at €41 including postage. I'd want the disc to be hand delivered by Swedish hooker for that kinda cash. I was trying to track down a copy of the new(ish) "Before the Dawn" and "Dawn of Solace" discs yesterday but can't seem to find either for less than €20 + postage each. Call me tight, but that's pretty steep IMO.
 
lmao - I left out heaps...but its a bit of shock when you look at what we put in, *sighs* but thats life - its not like we have a choice - the desire to record and play music is too strong, more a way of life really
 
Sparky, we are still getting arse-raped down here over prices, especially billy hydes etc

even worse the live scene is getting harder, poker machines have killed off almost all venues in Sydney, Endel Rivers has left melbourne, Dave from Indent closed up shop....I think DW is the only decent producer in Melbourne, (although Ermin is doing some great stuff), lol and my bass player will snap his neck if he's left in the same room as him lol - we are fucked !
 
@ anyone supporting the RIAA: I Understand the importance of getting the RIAA for protection, and understand that bands/labels need to keep their songs/albums etc from being stolen.

But the RIAA's methods are ridiculous! The only reason i posted that here was because i thought users here would agree with me and maybe rant a few things i didn't know lol

a Friend of mine (that loathes the RIAA) has done the research on them has sent an email to every band associated with RIAA that he listens to, saying he will refuse to listen/support them just because they are signed with them, and gave a valid enough arguement that "between the buried and me" replied saying they agreed with him, but said that they were already signed for the latest release to pull out.
He also told me Fat Wreck Chords said they had to pay thousands in legal fees to get de-listed from the RIAA list, because they wouldnt take them off.

This is a piece of what he said in the email regarding their methods:

"Here are some other facts:

Are you aware that $2 of every CD sold goes directly to RIAA? Instead of screwing fans over, you could rather lower your prices or take that extra $2. Why is there piracy? Because music costs too much! How is adding on this tax helping out music at all?

If the RIAA was totally successful, we would not actually be talking. The RIAA attempted to switch off the internet. No joke!

The single mother who was fined $222 000 is now broke and screwed because of 24 songs. There was not even hard evidence she was the culprit. Do you think it is OK making her pay the fine for something she possibly did not commit?

The RIAA went after a mother of 5 children. They lost the case but are now attempting to sue an 11 year old and 13 year old for downloading music.

In another case, the RIAA attempted to sue an elderly woman who has never even heard of file sharing. She was found innocent, and countersued RIAA because of the illegal ways they attempted to gain evidence. It was found the RIAA is an unethical company.

In 2005 a disabled single mother was found innocent in an RIAA case, yet they refused to drop the case. They then threatened to interrogate her 10 year old daughter. How nice of them."

From what it looks like, they'll probably sue your hardworking mother/father just because she owned a PC.
 
i buy 6 - 12 or so new CD's per month usually..... 4 at the lowest as there's always at least one new release per week that i want. i never pay more than $14.99 + tax per CD, usually less.. unless it's some kind of special packaging or has a bonus DVD or some shit like that.