For those that download music

[James Murphy]

The 24 shared songs that were the subject of the lawsuit.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/trial-of-the-ce.html

They'll put a mother of two into bankruptcy for these poor artists.

actually it was for 1700 songs... if they had fined her for all of them, even to the lowest penalty per song as specified by Copyright Law, it would would be far far worse for her. they CHOSE to sue only based on those 24... it was being nice to her if you ask me. if she had gotten away with her "oh i'm just a poor mother of two" excuse, imagine the other excuses people could get away with..... "oh, i was beaten as a child", "oh i'm on the dole cuz i'm too ugly to get a proper job", oh "i did it cuz i have a wooden leg", blah blah blah... i'm more than sure the judge was thinking that if she were so bad off as a single mother that perhaps she should have been spending money on something other than broadband internet and spending her time doing something to earn more money for her family rather than on stealing from others and distributing it.

she has to be penalized... one excuse for breaking the law gets through and it'll open the door for many many more.

People go bankrupt all the time, big deal. my sister just did, and she wasn't sued by anyone.... and she didn't break the law either.

 

[whitedamp]

Matt Stone, Trey Parker, all the guys that write, draw, animate, do the voices and songs of South Park work really hard. Actually, South Park is a copyrighted TV show and you just saw it for free with a crap quality on Youtube. Now, imagine that Fox and Comedy Central will use the 9/11 paranoia to write some absurd laws that no one on the USA government will read, just aprove it because that´s what they do. Then, police will be free to hack your computer, sue you, bribe the jury and destroy your life and your family FOREVER. But who cares? It´s the law, 100% justice.

I´m not trying to be a smartass here, but RIAA is a bag of shit ruled by old gangsters in suits.

For more info about the "CV" of some of the defenders of law and justice that runs RIAA, check this site ("THUGS" section):
http://www.boycott-riaa.com/

 

[billcraftmetal15]

not that i download myself, but i'm just curious as to how many other countries are getting clamped down on, i've only really seen or heard of cases in the usa so far

 

[whitedamp]

not that i download myself, but i'm just curious as to how many other countries are getting clamped down on, i've only really seen or heard of cases in the usa so far

RIAA is the recording industry association of america. Besides, I think that only USA have such crazy laws that allow such gangsters to operate like they do. As you may know, any artist received a cent from RIAA lawsuits. NEVER. They claim that the music belongs to the record label.

 

[Chryst Krispies]

Destiny's Child "BILLS BILLS BILLS"

HAHAHAH. That's a little taste of irony

 

[James Murphy]

Matt Stone, Trey Parker, all the guys that write, draw, animate, do the voices and songs of South Park work really hard. Actually, South Park is a copyrighted TV show and you just saw it for free with a crap quality on Youtube. Now, imagine that Fox and Comedy Central will use the 9/11 paranoia to write some absurd laws that no one on the USA government will read, just aprove it because that´s what they do. Then, police will be free to hack your computer, sue you, bribe the jury and destroy your life and your family FOREVER. But who cares? It´s the law, 100% justice.

I´m not trying to be a smartass here, but RIAA is a bag of shit ruled by old gangsters in suits.

For more info about the "CV" of some of the defenders of law and justice that runs RIAA, check this site ("THUGS" section):
http://www.boycott-riaa.com/

RIAA is the recording industry association of america. Besides, I think that only USA have such crazy laws that allow such gangsters to operate like they do. As you may know, any artist received a cent from RIAA lawsuits. NEVER. They claim that the music belongs to the record label.

what the hell do you think you know exactly?... not one person, eh? well i've gotten royalties... in fact an unexpected $2000 royalty check saved my ass in 2002 when i desperately needed money to pay for medicine... and this has happened several times since then...artists get royalties every quarter. Hey, the used car business is run by the mafia in many cities, but do you think the law will be on your side if you steal a used car off one of the lots?

so the record companies aggressively protect their business... would you not do the same??

you are preaching nonsense.. pure unadulterated nonsense. it's very simple.. if you don't steal copyrighted materials... and especially don't then share those materials with the world... then you won't get sued for doing so.. simple.

what if i had scanned every page of the latest Harry Potter novel on the day it was released and uploaded it as a .PDF to thousands of people... would you be running to my defense if i had gotten sued to the tune hundreds of thousands of dollars?? your argument is ridiculous and makes you sound like a "justifier", trying to publicly justify possibly your own illegal downloading/sharing by defending "poor helpless" thieves from the rightful owners. Or maybe you just have a soft heart.... well it's misplaced with this chick. she knew... that's why she used KAZA.. she thought it's p2p nature would protect her.

do you think it's ok to take a 10 mega-pixel digital camera to a fine art museum, set up a tri-pod and proper lighting, and take high quality pics of famous works of art and then bring those home and use them to produce "frame-able" quality duplicates of those paintings to give away to anyone you feel like?? you'd be stopped by security before you got the lens cap off mostly likely. fuck, it's not even legal to take a copy of a legitimate print you purchased from a licensed vendor and make scans to put up for grabs on line.

are you really saying that just because it's easy to do that illegal downloading/uploading/sharing of copyrighted music should be "Ok"??? that's fucking nuts.. and will spell the end of the days where new bands can come from nothing and reach the heights of stardom forever, and badly damage the ability of your average band that doesn't get "huge" to make decent sounding albums, make videos, and to tour, nevermind the fallout for audio professionals.

FYI, i didn't know what that link was when i clicked it, and i own that SP episode on DVD anyway... and youtube has deals with several networks that allow them to host snippets. not sure if ComCen or their parent company Viacom is one of them, but it may be... i don't care though, i just buy the DVDs.

Intellectual Property people... what is so hard to understand about that?? the labels pay to make these albums, and the bands write and perform them....the copyright is of the recording they paid to make.... NOT of the song itself.. the writers, presumably the band, own the actual songs. get that? record and publishing deals are complex and if you sign one you best know what it says.... it's a business deal people, nothing more nothing less. most bands are more than happy to work out deals with labels so they have someone to fund recordings, manufacture and market the albums, fund videos, give tour support, etc etc.... it's a trade.. a trade bands willingly make... BECAUSE THEY NEED THE LABELS.. it's VOLUNTARY. sure, there are bad deals and unhappy artists... go to court... the same as any other industry in the world.

As i've mentioned before, i've made well over a dozen albums as an artist and that involves several record deals.... not all of them have been good deals, far from it, but me or the band i was in made them... and we took the money. that gives the label certain rights.... that's the way it works and will never be any different. same as your bank has certain rights if you have a mortgage loan with them. it amazes me how people freak out when normal business concepts apply to the music biz.

at the end of the day, do what you want.... you'll either get sued or you wont.... let this chick's case be your example though... settle.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

not that i download myself, but i'm just curious as to how many other countries are getting clamped down on, i've only really seen or heard of cases in the usa so far

In Canada, you can download music without fear of reprisal. A federal judge ruled the 'net was no different than a public library. However, the rub is, you can't upload any music. Kind of strange, I'll admit. I even had to straighten the local paper out about "illegal music downloads" by suggesting they try some journalism for a change & read Canadian Copyright law.
We also have a levy upon blank media: Meaning, an extra tax goes on blank tapes, CD's, etc... ...specifically because of downloading. This money goes to SOCAN & redistributed to the labels & artists. Not a perfect system, no question there, but then again, 12 year olds aren't being sued by the music industry up here, either.
The woman in question might have been sued here, but I can't say for certain. There's a difference between having the files in a share directory & actually uploading them. I'm leaning towards that they'd actually have to catch her in the act. "Burden of Proof" & all that.


On a more personal note, I still like my CD's. Booklets, great quality, tactile feedback & hopefully the band even gets to see some of the money! I believe in supporting the artists, checking out cool record stores, that sort of thing. I get the fact that a musician has to eat, too.



Hehe, just thought I'd throw this in: I'm a proud owner of this particular gem:

 

[James Murphy]

I get the fact that a musician has to eat, too.

i'd have thought that the cogent issue you'd be thinking about is your own career path. but yeah, there's no reason for making your library available other than to let others take what they want....... this is the only reason to leave your computer on with this type of p2p software up and running... over and over again.

quantifiable fallout from illegal file sharing is clear as day an evident to all.... e.g., the many chains that have gone away or scaled way back... and tons of mom & pop operations have folded as well. i always think of my buddy Doug Harper who had a CD Warehouse Store in Kissimee (here in Florida, right by Disney... ostensibly an awesome location) several years ago... his dream.. to run a record store, and he was living it. he shut doors 4 years ago or so now.... after multiple days in a row witnessing "customers" pick up CD's and their buddies saying something to the effect of "don't buy that, i'll burn it for you", or "don't waste your money on that... i'll email you the mp3s" without even trying at all to be discreet... they just said it, right in front of him...

and it pisses me off that my favorite Tower (on Sunset in LA) sits empty. balls.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

i'd have thought that the cogent issue you'd be thinking about is your own career path.

Absolutely! Sort of goes without saying....My day job pays very well, but it sure sucks! I'd much rather be making records for a living. So yeah, if the case in question sets an example, I can see it benefiting a number of us.


Sorry to hear about your friend's business.... I understand your point exactly. Back in my college days, I'd spend hours upon hours cruising the records stores on Yonge Street in Toronto. Even bumped into Pantera one day before anyone knew who the hell they were! Lots of chain stores, lots of mom & pop shops, found a lot of great stuff. I went back last summer, & sadly, most of the Mom & Pop shops are gone. Hell, even Sam the Record Man's flagship store closed. Sucks.




BTW, "Cogent." Good adjective! I actually had to look that one up in the online dictionary. "Always try to learn something everyday" is my philosophy.

 

[slashvanyoung]

I had a big argument about this topic with someone today who was going like "I don't care about the artist, it's the industry who's suffering not the artist, they're too rich living excessively, quality will survive in the end, cut out the middle-men blabblablaba..."... I had a lengthy conversation and told him that he had basically no idea about what it's like to be a professional musician and surviving in the biz etc.

The thing that bugged me most was the utter disrespect for the profession "musician" itself.

I got pissed... James, you would have probably killed him!

 

[sparkyness]

Downloading culture has definitely changed things like distribution (or lack thereof) and price too. Label profits are down so they put the price up to retain some semblence of revenues they once had. Availability of stock is also an issue for albums on smaller labels. Combine the two and you get a vastly overpriced product you can only get from one or two sources. I don't think many people realise that not buying albums (and just downloading) is the cause of this and not the answer.

 

[smy1]

RIAA is the recording industry association of america. Besides, I think that only USA have such crazy laws that allow such gangsters to operate like they do. As you may know, any artist received a cent from RIAA lawsuits. NEVER. They claim that the music belongs to the record label.

Technically that's right. The music belongs to the record label for the time that is specified in the recording contract.

 

[whitedamp]

what the hell do you think you know exactly?... not one person, eh? well i've gotten royalties... in fact an unexpected $2000 royalty check saved my ass in 2002 when i desperately needed money to pay for medicine... and this has happened several times since then...artists get royalties every quarter.

As I´ve said, any artist received a cent from RIAA LAWSUITS. I´m not talking about royalties.

it amazes me how people freak out when normal business concepts apply to the music biz.

NORMAL BUSINESS CONCEPTS?!! Man, I will quote some things that you may have not read:

* the industry did not have to demonstrate that the defendant's computer had a file-sharing program installed at the time that they inspected her hard drive.

* the RIAA did not have to show that the defendant was at the keyboard when RIAA investigators accessed Thomas' share folder.

* The RIAA did not have to prove that others downloaded the files.

* The jury found her liable after receiving evidence her internet protocol address and cable modem identifier were used to share some 1,700 files. The hard drive linked to Kazaa on Feb. 21, 2005 -- the evening in question -- did not become evidence in the case.

(this reminds me when RIAA lawsuited a dead man hahaha)

* According to testimony, Thomas replaced her hard drive weeks after RIAA investigators accessed her share file and discovered 1,702 files. The industry sued on just 24 of those files.

* In October of 2001, while we all were still reeling from Sept. 11th, the RIAA tried to get an amendment inserted into the USA Act (the Antiterrorism bill) that would allow the RIAA to hack your computer.

* An RIAA-drafted amendment according to a draft obtained by Wired News would immunize all copyright holders -- including the movie and e-book industry -- for any data losses caused by their hacking efforts or other computer intrusions "that are reasonably intended to impede or prevent" electronic piracy.

Now: You shoot me. I don´t need to prove that the gun exists, that it was you who was holding it, that you made me bleed. I can enter in our house without yours or police permission, destroy anything I want and that´s ok. 100% justice. Oh, and yeah, I will bribe the jury and you are going to jail.

Actually it´s not a big surprise. USA didn´t need to prove nome of these things when they invaded Iraq and destroyed everything. Who needs to show the weapons of mass destruction? Terrorists? If they exists in our mind that´s enough to screw with them. Let´s go, kill them all. All business.

*edit* In fact, I give up. I don´t want to be an annoying "forum troll". If the facts on the news by themselves don´t change your mind there´s anything I can say that will worth a shit to you.

 

[greyskull]

A lot of awesome stuff

spot on as usual Mr murphy.

I remember when i was a kid, and the big stores (hmv, etc) never used to carry any of the bands i wanted to listen to. There was a great shop in Guildford called Heaven sent that used to sell everything underground and awesome. a 'mom&pop store' as you yanks call em. And we would save our money for weeks and go there, then they'd put any albums we were interested in on the big ass stereo in there so we could see if we liked it. They'd sell cds for local bands too.(try THAT in hmv without proper distibution!!)

And in those days if you werent sure about a bunch of artists we would BUY a label sampler cd. Fat wreck chords and epitath were amazing for this, some of those are some of my favourite cds. that way we get a decent idea what the band was like. Then we'd save some more and buy the cd of the artists we liked the most from those samplers.

I despise illegal downloading. Its killing our music, video/film/tv and software industries.
stop it

 

[sparkyness]

Slighty OT but Radiohead (in typical fashion) are testing the market with their new album and offering it for download from their website from tomorrow. The price? They're letting those who download it decide what to pay for it...including the option of not paying for it all. As they're no longer under contract from Parlophone and haven't even negotiated a distro deal to get the album released in stores it will be interesting as to how/if this works.

Prince did a similar thing recently and was giving away his latest album to those who attended his concerts.

It will be interesting to see what the business model actually ends up working to resolve with the current issues experienced within the industry.

 

[elmuchoescadawg]

not that i download myself, but i'm just curious as to how many other countries are getting clamped down on, i've only really seen or heard of cases in the usa so far

We have had instances in the UK of parents being fined for their kids downlading music. The only sad bit about this is the parents had no idea what was going on until they got a summons.

Bit of a lesson for them to know what their kids are doing and whats on their own computer. We need more of this in the UK and USA so musicians and engineers etc etc can try and make a living. I once got told my some one that no one owns music as its art and you cant put a price on art. Fucking hippy.

 

[sparkyness]

...and that's why most famous pre-20th century artists died broke and hungry

 

[Skyweaver]

wow I thought I was the only one that actually still paid for my music........everything I listen to - I've paid for, the downloading I do is via Itunes, which is a pretty cool cheap alternative

were recording an album this year and I doubt we'd even see a cent from it, actually I'm not even sure why we are bothering, probably more about the group that I'm with and wanting to capture the "moment".

Its really fucked how a lot of the recording studio's here in Australia have closed due to people recording in their bedroom, bands record in their bedrooms because they cant make enough sales via albums to go to professional studios, theres a real flow on affect of stealing (downloading is just fuckns stealing) peoples hardwork and musical dreams....

will there be a real future for metal, when we are cannibalising the young bands before they start ??

*sighs*

 

[sparkyness]

The culture has most definitely changed in terms of the goals of a band. A guy at work came up to me and asked me to download his band's song from some iTunes equivalent as they want to "get into the Irish Charts". Apparently they were on the cusp of the top 30 as they'd gotten "everyone they knew" to download the track for €1.

I casually asked him where they were gigging and he said they were waiting until people heard their songs first. It turns out that they'd recorded the track (albeit a not altogether horrendous song) at home, actually didn't have amps or a full drum kit, and hadn't rehearsed together. I immediately felt old and took the lad aside and explained to him in true "when I was your age" fashion how I, like millions of other aspiring musicians back in the day actually played these things called "gigs" and that was how people heard our music. Some of the people there even bought a CD (or 7" single!!!!!) after the show if they liked it enough. Some of the them even told their friends about the band so even more people showed up the next time we played. Once things got really silly, a man in a shiny nice suit turned up and offered us a contract we should have refused

 

[elmuchoescadawg]

Im not sure how it all works but I got a promo copy of the the new Obituary album a few months back and it would not play or be recognised by a computer. Ok I couldnt get it onto my ipod but for the same reasons no one else can put it on a P2P network. I could still play it in my car so no big deal really as far as I was concerned. Could this be part of the future of CDs?