dean.. i don't really care about the RIAA.. i care about the negative results of stealing... and how that theft will eventually grow and kill not just the RIAA but pretty much every label, even non RIAA listed labels. and yes, i agree that CD's in general cost too much but stealing in response to that is not the answer. cheaper CD's across the board would help but wouldn't solve the problem because people don't steal music as a result of the price. e.g., Metal Blade's products are very fairly priced at $9.99 - $11.99 and people still steal them... thieves don't care how much CD's cost because they are free on their Kaza or limewire.
For those that download music
- Thread starter deanbailey
- Start date
Not surprised. When Jeff Kennett relaxed the gambling laws is when I and a lot of other guys got out of Melbourne as we knew the venues would render live bands to history. Virtually everywhere I used to play (Punters Club, etc) is long gone. I guess there was a snowball effect on the few nice guys that sold gear. There was a dude who ran a small store down in Elwood that was great. I hope I funded a part of his early enforced retirement.
I was earning a decent living gigging 3-4 nights a week with various (shit) bands and doing the odd session here and I wasn't even one of the well "known" bass players around at the time such as the Rob Little's of the world. I haven't been back to Melbourne for over 2 years but shocked to hear the stories from old mates. Our great little scene is gone.
We have similar patterns/budgets there.....
Relapse Records are very reasonable and low cost to ship to Europe as well.
Skyweaver
Shred or Die !
yep I remeber Taramis, Bell Street Rock etc - Rob Little is still kicking, he works at Billy Hydes Blackburn - great guy and player...Dean Guidon and Evan Harris are still the best known bass doods kicking around....
I reckon a city looses its soul when the muso's stop being able to play live - becomes a "grey race" of coporate ghosts
I reckon a city looses its soul when the muso's stop being able to play live - becomes a "grey race" of coporate ghosts
Fair enough.
I guess It's like going to a show and seeing a band merch table with free EP's and another table with CD's for Sale. The EP's would definitely go first.
Jarkko Mattheiszen
The FU guy.
Ouch, new releases are generally about $29 or $30 over here, 'cept for the small labels whose records come out at roughly $25. So, even six new albums a month would make a huge notch in my budget with my current income
I'm not defending piracy with this post in any way, it was just a side note.
EDIT:
Some examples of fairly new releases (these are from a mailorder store, in our local record shop they'd be a bit more expensive):
Nightwish - Dark passion play $26,7
Sigur ros - Hvarf/Heim $28,12
Smashing Pumpkins - Zeitgeist $28,12
Ajattara - Kalmanto (a Finnish metal band that's not very popular or well known) $22,5
With the (much) weaker US Dollar it worth importing CD's from the US at the moment as the prices are very high in Europe at the moment. I get a lot of stuff direct from the label or band sites.
elmuchoescadawg
Member
You know what I do when I cant afford to buy something? Whether its a house, a car, a guitar, a microphone or a CD??
I just dont buy it. Yes all of these things are relatively expensive but if you cant afford them decent normal people dont just steal them. You either save up or work harder. No one owes me a living and I dont have a right to own a bands new album just cos I 'really like them'.
If you cant afford it you dont get it simple as that.
I just dont buy it. Yes all of these things are relatively expensive but if you cant afford them decent normal people dont just steal them. You either save up or work harder. No one owes me a living and I dont have a right to own a bands new album just cos I 'really like them'.
If you cant afford it you dont get it simple as that.
greyskull
Member
- Mar 22, 2006
- 6,072
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AudioPhile777
Mathew Cohen
dreamcatcher
Raising the Knife
Yeah.
Course, I mostly buy used CDs, and IIRC royalties are not paid on those. And, honestly, that does kinda bug me...
STINNETT
Bad / Nationwide
But you overlook the "losing money / not losing money" argument that is often employed.
To aquire any of the things you listed without buying them would involve stealing a tangible object, thus preventing anyone else from owning it or the owner from ever being able to profit from it. If you download music that you were never going to buy for whatever reason, technically nobody is losing anything. (unless you redistribute it or share it with other people who might have bought it otherwise)
Now before anyone jumps on my case for even saying that, know that I don't agree with it.
It might sound great to lots of people, but the unfortuntate reality is that plenty of people who could easily afford to buy all the music they want end up just downloading it, and still relying on such rationalizations even though they are out the window. (The same applies with software, etc)
The thing with me is, I remember a time before the internet, before MP fucking 3's, before any of that bullshit, where physically owning an album was one of the coolest parts of the whole thing. Alot of young people don't share that point of view.
I'll be honest, I share albums with friends occasionally, and I download some things that are hard to find...but anything that I can physically own, I want to own it. If I like the CD that my buddy burned for me, I'll go buy it. I do it constantly. But in the age of the internet, instant availability, mp3's as the standard musical media.....most people just don't think that way.
This is almost kicking me off into another tirade about how much the internet has ruined everything about life in general....but I'll spare you.
AudioPhile777
Mathew Cohen
I was just thinking that before I read it...
I don't want to get into it either...
uke:
@ Mr Murphy.At the end of the day it just comes down "Stealing is wrong kids" Unfortunately for some little pirate (yarghh pun) 12 year old, he doesn't really think of the fact that when his nerdy little friend on MSN tells him to download this magical program called Limewire and tells him how to download all his favourite kiddy tunes, that in reality he is stealing. I think that a large element (for kids anyway, not talking about all of the immoral adults who should know better) of the problem is that when they're brought up, mum and dad don't kick their arse for downloading music like they would if they went to a shop and stole the cd, simply because they either don't know the kid is doing it, don't understand it, or don't realise themselves that its wrong. I think government's should make people more aware of the consequences of illegal downloads and nail it home thats its wrong. I think although the RIAA are doing some good in that they're really whacking down the law on a few people to make their point, they should probably spend a bit of money on raising awareness and stuff first. At least thats what I think anyway...I mean I'm from England so it's different here again, but it's the same basic thing.
Loren Littlejohn
Lover of all boobage.
RIAA is horrible.
Stealing is wrong. (and I don't intend to argue that)
The industry is run by cunts.
They need to change shit.
Here is my issue:
We live currently in a world that wants everything RIGHT THIS FUCKING SECOND. That me hello my name is Loren and I want my music now, I don't want to go to a store, show etc...
So what do I do? I go to itunes store and buy a substandard sounding collection of protected aac encoded garbage sounding tracks off of band _____'s newly realsed CD. I am pissed because apparently it's cool for apple to treat me like a thief for buying a ligit track. I am limited in the number of times I can copy it even though heaven foribid I accidentally ruin all 6 copies (it's not illeagal to back up your music). It's bullshit.
I couldn't care less about the tangeble product IN FACT I tend to copy CD's I buy and listen to the copies because I don't want my originals to get fucked up lost etc...
What pisses me off is they are ALLOWED to sell sub standard garbage. Internet speeds are fast enough that they can sell a whole CD at the ORIGINAL QUALITY that is 16bit 44.1 wav or aiff. But they don't and I hate it. I have boycotted itunes and I pretty much just stay content with my collection until I get arsed enough to drive to the other side of town (there is only 1 place sans wal-mart :yuck: that you can buy CDs) and buy the CD at a rediculous inflated cost (sometimes over $20).
Now you might ask "why on earth is he paying this much?" Well the nearest best buy is 1/2 away, I don't buy alot of CDs, and I like high quality audio. Mp.3 sounds like garbage.
Stealing is wrong. (and I don't intend to argue that)
The industry is run by cunts.
They need to change shit.
Here is my issue:
We live currently in a world that wants everything RIGHT THIS FUCKING SECOND. That me hello my name is Loren and I want my music now, I don't want to go to a store, show etc...
So what do I do? I go to itunes store and buy a substandard sounding collection of protected aac encoded garbage sounding tracks off of band _____'s newly realsed CD. I am pissed because apparently it's cool for apple to treat me like a thief for buying a ligit track. I am limited in the number of times I can copy it even though heaven foribid I accidentally ruin all 6 copies (it's not illeagal to back up your music). It's bullshit.
I couldn't care less about the tangeble product IN FACT I tend to copy CD's I buy and listen to the copies because I don't want my originals to get fucked up lost etc...
What pisses me off is they are ALLOWED to sell sub standard garbage. Internet speeds are fast enough that they can sell a whole CD at the ORIGINAL QUALITY that is 16bit 44.1 wav or aiff. But they don't and I hate it. I have boycotted itunes and I pretty much just stay content with my collection until I get arsed enough to drive to the other side of town (there is only 1 place sans wal-mart :yuck: that you can buy CDs) and buy the CD at a rediculous inflated cost (sometimes over $20).
Now you might ask "why on earth is he paying this much?" Well the nearest best buy is 1/2 away, I don't buy alot of CDs, and I like high quality audio. Mp.3 sounds like garbage.
prowlergrig
AnoThoR Fan
very good points guitargodgt, paying for sucky mp3s is bullshit and i'll never do it.
alright here's my view - i'm young and naive and my views may be really flawed, feel free to contradict me
i steal all my music. i only buy what i can afford - about 5 of my top favourites per year, i'm trying to get more though because i like CD's.
i give away all my music on the internet. ideally i'd like to also have it available on CD for people who value the physical product.
why? because it's art. you shouldn't expect art to pay your bills, you create art because you have a calling. the best reward for me is for other people to enjoy my music, i don't really care if they're paying me for it or not. you work for art, not the other way around.
as a talented artist, you can either become popular to a number of people and earn a living from your music, or you can not earn a dime. but guess what, the same is true for a shit artist! what i'm getting at is, there is no connection between the intrinsec value of your music and the amount of money it earns you. young people should be discouraged to pick up a guitar hoping to use it to earn a decent living - that's a path to mediocrity.
of course it's different when talking about live shows and making albums - a lot of people put in a lot of work here that's separate from the art itself and obviously everyone involved should earn a decent amount of money for their work.
i'm not saying artists should starve to death, of course - i don't have a solution to the poor artists problem. what i AM saying is that artists should stop bitching about money they're not getting, the only purpose of their art should be as immaterial as the art itself.
so, if i don't have an alternative solution to feeding the artists and the engineers and everyone involved, does acting on what i feel is right make me a bad person?
alright here's my view - i'm young and naive and my views may be really flawed, feel free to contradict me
i steal all my music. i only buy what i can afford - about 5 of my top favourites per year, i'm trying to get more though because i like CD's.
i give away all my music on the internet. ideally i'd like to also have it available on CD for people who value the physical product.
why? because it's art. you shouldn't expect art to pay your bills, you create art because you have a calling. the best reward for me is for other people to enjoy my music, i don't really care if they're paying me for it or not. you work for art, not the other way around.
as a talented artist, you can either become popular to a number of people and earn a living from your music, or you can not earn a dime. but guess what, the same is true for a shit artist! what i'm getting at is, there is no connection between the intrinsec value of your music and the amount of money it earns you. young people should be discouraged to pick up a guitar hoping to use it to earn a decent living - that's a path to mediocrity.
of course it's different when talking about live shows and making albums - a lot of people put in a lot of work here that's separate from the art itself and obviously everyone involved should earn a decent amount of money for their work.
i'm not saying artists should starve to death, of course - i don't have a solution to the poor artists problem. what i AM saying is that artists should stop bitching about money they're not getting, the only purpose of their art should be as immaterial as the art itself.
so, if i don't have an alternative solution to feeding the artists and the engineers and everyone involved, does acting on what i feel is right make me a bad person?
STINNETT
Bad / Nationwide
Where do you think that money comes from? It comes from record sales. Most bands don't make enough money touring to keep touring, they've got to get money from their label. If there are no record sales, there's no money from the label.
It could also be argued that what you pay for an album only covers the process of making the album, not the art itself. You're not paying for the "notes", you're paying for the physical production of that recording.
There are many flaws in your point of view. I'm not judging you for it, I'm just pointing this out since you invited us to. I expect that alot of other people will too.
prowlergrig
AnoThoR Fan
all you said is true and you understood me well. like i said i don't have a solution, but i wish there were a way to pay all the people involved that're doing a good job, without the music of several great artists being stopped from being able to reach me
i can see how everything i've said is too idealistic and will probably never work in the real world. but at the moment i'm trying to make the best of it - i know i'm not helping the artists survive, but my hope is that where there's a will to create something good, there'll be a way. and the internet and current technology offers such ways, like it or not
i can see how everything i've said is too idealistic and will probably never work in the real world. but at the moment i'm trying to make the best of it - i know i'm not helping the artists survive, but my hope is that where there's a will to create something good, there'll be a way. and the internet and current technology offers such ways, like it or not
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