For those that hard clip your masters with converters...

[acappa]

Thanks to Lasse I´ve discovered this great way to get loudness to my masters. My question is very simple. When I drive hard the converter, and as example I get to a -9dbRMS my meters are peaking 0.0dbs, there´s no digital distortion or anything sounding in a bad way, but I´m afraid some hardware, recorders, laptops or something recognizes the 0.0 as digital distortion and create problems during playback, duplication...
You guys, once you´ve got your mix as loud as desired, you put a limiter and low your peaks from 0.0 to maybe -0.1/-0.2 ??? Thankssss

 

[tempe]

Well the whole point of clipping your converters is to drive it over zero, run it back into a limiter with the ceiling set at -0.1

 

[Morgan C]

I don't think its specific to hardware clipping, but generally you'd leave your mix peaking at around -0.3db, because converting to mp3 will alter the peaks a bit and cause clipping otherwise. You could set it higher, but then that'd potentially result in more clipping when you convert to mp3. There shouldn't be an issue if you keep it as .wav though - but who listens to lossless music nowadays!

 

[tempe]

Depends on what you use to convert to MP3 and if you're downsampling. But you're probably right, just go to -0.3 to be on the safe side!

 

[colonel_claypoo]

how's it possible for some mastered records to be over 0dbfs?
the new foo fighters for examples sometimes exceeds the ceiling.
how's that possible? by clipping the converters and not limiting it afterwards?

 

[Backe]

how do clip converters? ¯\(°_o)/¯

 

[Trevoire520]

I always print my masters at -0.3db as from what I've heard this helps to stop inter-sample peaks/clips.

How do you go about clipping your converters by the way? I keep hearing about it and fancy giving it a go but I'm not quite sure what to do. Do you send your mix out and then run it through a preamp to give the signal some gain before it hits the line level input? Educate me peeps!

 

[drew_drummer]

I don't understand this at all. Can someone explain?

 

[drope934]

-0.3db and let's rock n' roll

 

[OneDaySky]

Well the whole point of clipping your converters is to drive it over zero, run it back into a limiter with the ceiling set at -0.1

I do something similar. Master fader at 0db and a limiter last in the chain set to -0.01db

 

[drew_drummer]

I do something similar. Master fader at 0db and a limiter last in the chain set to -0.01db

Call me stupid, but that doesn't sound anything like what is being described here. It sounds like people are talking about going out through an A/D and then coming back into a D/A, clipping it a tad, and then limiting.

Which sounds plain weird to me, so maybe I'm misunderstanding.

 

[Morgan C]

Depends on what you use to convert to MP3 and if you're downsampling. But you're probably right, just go to -0.3 to be on the safe side!

You could probably get away with higher with a good quality mp3 convertor. But let's be honest, most people who buy the CD will rip it with iTunes' mp3 convertor at 128kbps.

 

[acappa]

Let me explain you my mastering chain and may be some of you understand the process: I run my stereo mix out of my converter into a small tube desk, there I insert my Neve Eq and my SSL bus compressor, then I take it back to the converter, driving hard the desk´s output so the converter clips. I open a stereo track in Sound Forge and set the inputs to the desk out puts, check the RMS, and if it´s ok I guess, I should put a Waves L1 St and lower the peaks from 0.0 to -0.2
That´s it, cheers!

 

[Nick M]

Yep thats pretty much the way to do it. The main idea is to raise the gain in the analog domain so that you shave off a little by actually clipping your ad converter. Once it is captured use a little bit of digital limiting to bring it down to -0.03. Done.

 

[drew_drummer]

Are you sure it doesn't just end up sounding shit???

 

[locus_coeruleus]

how's it possible for some mastered records to be over 0dbfs?
the new foo fighters for examples sometimes exceeds the ceiling.
how's that possible? by clipping the converters and not limiting it afterwards?

that's because Foo Fighters like to ruin their records.

 

[Nick M]

I do something similar. Master fader at 0db and a limiter last in the chain set to -0.01db

The topic is about clipping you A to D converters. Nothing to do with your master fader in your DAW. A limiter is usually used after it is clipped (could be used lightly before too) to bring the perceived volume even higher while allowing the headroom for ISP.

So to be clear - you need some analog gear. Usually this is a compressor or limiter or equalizer. Could even be a preamp. Once you come out of your D to A converter you go into your analog piece and raise the gain here. For example the output/makeup gain on your compressor. Send this output to your A to D converter and raise the gain monitoring the amount of distortion being introduced by clipping the input of the converter. Then simply settle on an acceptable compromise between volume and fidelity. After this you can limit more if it suits. I generally limit just a touch after clipping.

 

[Nick M]

Are you sure it doesn't just end up sounding shit???

Good point.

If you have weak converters, forget you even read this topic exists. I use Euphonix, Lavry, and Burl converters. The converter does determine how far you can go with clipping and sounding good. The Burl B2 handles clipping the best out of anything I have heard yet.

My friend did this with his digidesign 192's and it was pretty ugly.

 

[drew_drummer]

How is this any different to just blasting the input of a brickwall limiter? I don't get what the point of using an A/D stage essentially as a distortion is???

Is this a common thing, because it's the first time I've heard of it!! And is this why Tool's 10,000 Day's (to pick an example) sounds a bit squashed as far as the mastering goes?

 

[AdamWathan]

Are you sure it doesn't just end up sounding shit???

Have you read the "Getting your loudness" thread? It's all about clipping your masters.