For those that hard clip your masters with converters...
- Thread starter acappa
- Start date
Nick M
Chuck Norris is my uncle
Not different in terms of goals, but different in how it does not push down things like drums in the mix for example. Clipping does not change the mix the way a limiter can. I find that when limiting it alters things quite a bit and I have to work around limiting. Clipping does not do this. Most of your mastering engineers achieve their volume through clipping and limiting.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
AdamWathan
Member
I know what clipping is, thankyou very much.
Then why all the questions? This thread is about clipping a converter like major mastering houses do instead of plugin clipping. It doesn't "sound shit", it's how most major mastering engineers clip things.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Dude, did you actually read my questions?
There were not about the actual act of CLIPPING per-se.... they were about WHY clip through an A/D converter OVER just using a software clipper or perhaps boosting the input on a brickwall limiter.
I was not questioning the mathematical application of clipping. I was questioning the METHOD.
Nick helped explain the WHY. All you're doing is being hard-assed.
Trevoire520
Member
A limiter actually pushes things down. So every time your kick or snare hits the whole mix ducks by a few db. Clipping just chops off the top of the transient instead.
I've used T-racks clipper on my masters for a while and I much prefer it over using a limiter. Might give clipping my converters a go even though I've only got a Profire and a Onyx 800R.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Right I think I get it now. When using a regularly limiter, to get to a very loud volume, you have to crank it... which can result in mixes that pump too much. so you're using the clipper to shave off the peaks that cause the pumping characteristics when using a limiter on its own.
So I guess my main question is - how is using hardware to do the clipping superior over software? My guess would be that because up to a point, the A/D converter will "saturate" before it clips, whereas the software wont necessarily saturate in a pleasing manner.
???
Nick M
Chuck Norris is my uncle
AdamWathan
Member
Well Slates post that I linked to explains it. Software clipping is a ghetto alternative to clipping high quality converters, apparently anyways. Clipping hardware supposedly sounds better, that's why people do it instead of using plugins.
I'm not trying to be hardassed, I didn't realize what you meant I guess. Your question is basically the same as "why use an outboard SSL bus comp when you could use the plugin?" then. Hardware gear slutism, that's all it is really!
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Is there any good reason to have your mix at, for example, -0.3db? I think I read somewhere that intersample clipping can happen with shit like -5db if the situation is right, so is there any actual advantage from having -0.3db compared to, say, -0.01db, or do I just remember wrong?
Nick M
Chuck Norris is my uncle
You would never encounter a 5db ISP if you clipped and and then used a brickwall limiter. The ISP db value could only be equivalent to the limiters gain reduction (usually very little after clipping) plus the particular limiters distortion characteristics. Most I have ever seen is under 1 db unless you are only slamming a limiter. In that case you could probably get 5db ISP if you tried.
After two days tweaking how hard I can run the SSL converter without hearing any artifact or distortion I must tell I´m a totaly pro now (on the ironic side) I´ve past the last two days just setting two inputs, recording the clipped signal and watching the stats...oh man, you´ve reached -5db RMS and it sounds good, then accidentaly playback the track recorded...man distorrrrtioooooooooonnnnn!!! Of couse, soundforge understands the 0.0 incoming data as digital distortion...I actually have two options:
1. Buy a hardware limiter prior to enter the converter
2. To be able to set a brickwall plugin to kick in before its recorded...and TBH I have no idea how to set it...so any suggestion???
1. Buy a hardware limiter prior to enter the converter
2. To be able to set a brickwall plugin to kick in before its recorded...and TBH I have no idea how to set it...so any suggestion???
Emdprodukt
Member of Dude Castle 69
Lasse Lammert
HCAF Blitzkrieg
to avoid problems with inter sa,ple clipping, conversion to mp3, bad consumer da converters etc I always have the ceiling at -0.4
gabriel g.
Member
same here.
No software clipper can do the magic like AD/DA clipping.
Its not that big of a loudness difference but it is a big difference in sound.
The real magic happens with an analog compressor that clips the input of the DA (I do it with my SSL clone and the makeup gain)
But I dont over-Do it. I let the signal touch the red area but not make it constant clipping.
With a balanced mix it is easy to get in the -10RMS area
waltz mastering
Member
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Aaron Smith
Envisage Audio
Nick M
Chuck Norris is my uncle
I tend to feel the same as him here. I still do use -0.03 though just in case somebody has a terrible cd player to listen to. How many cars CD player just sucks?
