Forgive My Ignorance ..Growl Lovers Wanted

[FatesFan]

I have heard it said that we don’t like what we don’t understand. My intention in this thread is to gain as much knowledge as possible in regards to growling vocals.

Are there different styles of growling or harsh vocals?

If so, what are they?

Also, if there are multiple styles, is each style typically used in a particular style of metal of would a particular vox style be found in many styles of metal?

Okay, let’s say you say that vox style “a” is typically found in “blank” metal…….then give me a couple of examples of bands that fit that mix. I would also be interested to know what singers you would consider to be exceptional in that mix and who you would say are not so great.

This is intended to be a serious thread for information gathering purposes and not a thread to debate about if growls in general are good or not. I would really prefer that growl haters not start with the “growling is no talent and it all sucks” kind of stuff.

It will be interesting to see if there is some difference in ideas and debating between growl vox lovers.

So……educate me.

 

[Jim LotFP]

I have heard it said that we don’t like what we don’t understand. My intention in this thread is to gain as much knowledge as possible in regards to sung vocals.

Are there different styles of singing or melodic vocals?

If so, what are they?

Also, if there are multiple styles, is each style typically used in a particular style of metal of would a particular vox style be found in many styles of metal?

Okay, let’s say you say that vox style “a” is typically found in “blank” metal…….then give me a couple of examples of bands that fit that mix. I would also be interested to know what singers you would consider to be exceptional in that mix and who you would say are not so great.

This is intended to be a serious thread for information gathering purposes and not a thread to debate about if singing in general is good or not. I would really prefer that singing haters not start with the “singing is no talent and it all sucks” kind of stuff.

It will be interesting to see if there is some difference in ideas and debating between melodic vox lovers.

So……educate me.

I don't know how to better express my complete confusion over this issue.

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

Well, death metal has more low, gutteral vocals. Whereas, black metal is more of a higher pitched, shrieking vocal. In death metal I find JOHANN HEGG from AMON AMARTH to be by far the easiest to understand. In black metal, SHAGRATH on DIMMU BORGIR's latest also seems to be higher up in the mix and enunciating more to the point of coherence. Those two are my favorite vocalists in both their respective genres. Metalcore and that screamo shit is just that. Fucking screaming. It gets on my nerves to no end.

 

[FatesFan]

I don't know how to better express my complete confusion over this issue.

Are you saying you are as confused as I am or that my inquiry is confusing?

 

[FatesFan]

Well, death metal has more low, gutteral vocals. Whereas, black metal is more of a higher pitched, shrieking vocal. In death metal I find JOHANN HEGG from AMON AMARTH to be by far the easiest to understand. In black metal, SHAGRATH on DIMMU BORGIR's latest also seems to be higher up in the mix and enunciating more to the point of coherence. Those two are my favorite vocalists in both their respective genres. Metalcore and that screamo shit is just that. Fucking screaming. It gets on my nerves to no end.

Again, forgive me but what would be examples of Metalcore and Screamo?

 

[rms]

Again, forgive me but what would be examples of Metalcore and Screamo?

[ame]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4rRDNVqTc5g[/ame] Metalcore
[ame]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xu7aF_df6WU[/ame] - I guess thats screamo

 

[Purveyor Of Evil]

Again, forgive me but what would be examples of Metalcore and Screamo?

Metalcore is KILLSWITCH ENGAGE, ALL THAT REMAINS(Though I do like them), SHADOWS FALL(Though, I do like them,too) and SF's newest album has no screaming. More like clean singing and Hetfield-esque rasp. HATEBREED and AS I LAY DYING are more examples of metalcore. Screamo is EVERGREEN TERRACE, STILL REMAINS, DARKEST HOUR, DROID, THE DESTRO and countless others. Screamo/emo and metalcore also have some clean singing a lot of the time, too.

 

[Burnout]

Black metal vocals are typically higher and almost screeched in nature. Death vocals tend to be lower and guttural (some being harsher than others). I think that's as simple as I can make it.

I tend to prefer those that enunciate fairly well and are also able to vary pitch, tone and such effectively through out a song.

Death vocals at Wikipedia

Black metal vocals:

Vocally, a distinct, harsh style is required, often a very guttural rasp or a high-pitched shriek. This style is nearly universal in the black metal genre, and is distinct from death metal in this respect, as death metal bands employ low-pitched, growling vocals. Often there is a reverberation effect to make vocals sound cavernous and atmospheric.

I'm not a black metal fan, but I can list death vocalists I find to be exceptional:

James Malone: (Arsis): http://myspace.com/arsis
Patrick Loisel (Augury): http://myspace.com/augury
Chuck Schuldiner (Death)
Dan Swano (Edge Of Sanity)
Joe Duplantier (Gojira): http://myspace.com/gojira
Mikael Akerfeldt (Opeth)
Stephane Pare (Quo Vadis): http://myspace.com/quovadis1

Also, in my experience a lot of the harsh vocals in metalcore sound a bit more forced/yelled than in death metal and the clean vocals tend to sound different as well, at least to my ear.

 

[rms]

If you want to know about BM vocals, listen to Dragonlord/Naglfar/Windir i'd say that covers all the grounds in BM

 

[Burnout]

If you want to know about BM vocals, listen to Dragonlord/Naglfar/Windir i'd say that covers all the grounds in BM

Aren't Immortal, Mayhem, Burzum, Enslaved and such all fairly important too?

 

[rms]

Aren't Immortal, Mayhem, Burzum, Enslaved and such all fairly important too?

Maybe, but I dont care for any of them

 

[Burnout]

Maybe, but I dont care for any of them

 

[Jim LotFP]

Are you saying you are as confused as I am or that my inquiry is confusing?

I'm saying asking about "growling vocals" is about the same as asking, "I don't understand cleanly sung vocals, can someone explain it to me?" It can't be answered properly, not in any sort of quick message board reply format. There is no quick explanation that will even come close to covering it. You'll be dealing in gross generalizations every bit as offensive as, "Listen to Keeper of the Seven Keys Part One, that's what power metal vocals are like. Master of Puppets, that's what thrash vocals are like. Images and Words, that's prog metal vocals." I mean, yeah, a million guys try to sound like Michael Kiske so giving him as a prime example isn't wrong, but treating it as a representative example is a tremendous insult to all the guys in the style who don't sound like him and a disservice to someone asking for the information.

I think the way you phrase your question is going to lead you to being fed either the most stereotypical, and thus unremarkable, examples out there... or simply people's favorites (which will happen in any event)...

So I'll supply different references instead of typical examples:

In the beginning... death metal, thrash metal, and black metal weren't genres with typical qualities. Slayer was called death metal, Mercyful Fate was black metal, and it's only over time and later influence that the earlier bands got pigeonholed into various categories after the fact. These categorizations are constantly confused either today - after black metal became a trend, a lot of bands were called either death metal or black metal solely on the pitch of the vocalist. Really. Saying, "Black metal vocals are this, death metal vocals are that," is really useless. I promise. I think Children of Bodom's first album is a power metal album, "black metal vocals" notwithstanding... there are so many prominent exceptions to every statement about vocal style/genre pairings...

Some innovators of the growl:

Hellhammer
Venom
Possessed
Bathory
Sodom
Death

Some of the wildest and unique examples I can find on Myspace (and really out of control stuff - not the stuff you find in ProgPower bands that use growls):

Demilich
http://www.myspace.com/demilich

Nuclear Death
http://www.myspace.com/nucleardeath

Carcass


Napalm Death


Mayhem (with Dead)


Mayhem (with Attila Csihar)


Darkthrone


Anal Cunt (listen to these all the way through - seriously - you'll never complain about anything booked at ProgPower ever again)




The stereotypical examples:

Six Feet Under (death metal)


Satyricon (black metal)

 

[Jim LotFP]

That Youtube embedding shit is really annoying, anyone know how to turn it off? I was just trying to post the links.

 

[skyrefuge]

I have heard it said that we don’t like what we don’t understand.

I sure hope that whoever said that wasn't talking about music. Maybe I'm weird, but for my whole life, "liking music" has basically consisted of hearing music and thinking "hmm, I like how that sounds". No further understanding necessary. Do you think an infant smiles when he hears music because he "understands" it? Or a dancing toddler?

If you don't like the sound of growled vocals, that's cool. Perhaps with more exposure, or simply with time, your opinion could change. Or perhaps not. No big deal. But it won't change due to any sort of greater understanding, unless music is an entirely intellectual pursuit for you.

That said, here is a short clip of 5 different growlers I made years ago for exactly this purpose (to give some idea of the variety in growling styles). Coincidentally, the first example is Amorphis!

growls.mp3

By way of description, we have:

1. Deep, unintelligible death metal growl (the only style that should really be called "cookie monster")
2. High piercing black metal shriek
3. A middle ground between the two extremes
4. Deep growl, but easily understandable
5. One vocalist switching between growl varieties

That Youtube embedding shit is really annoying, anyone know how to turn it off? I was just trying to post the links.

Yeah, I'd like to know how to disable that in my posts too.

Neil

 

[Jim LotFP]

That said, here is a short clip of 5 different growlers I made years ago for exactly this purpose (to give some idea of the variety in growling styles). Coincidentally, the first example is Amorphis!

growls.mp3

By way of description, we have:

1. Deep, unintelligible death metal growl (the only style that should really be called "cookie monster")
2. High piercing black metal shriek
3. A middle ground between the two extremes
4. Deep growl, but easily understandable
5. One vocalist switching between growl varieties

Amorphis- Better Unborn, Solefald- When the Moon is On the Wave (good call, you can hear Cornelius' vocal chords blowing out there), Edge of Sanity- Crimson, ?, ?.

I just dated myself there, didn't I?

 

[Perditions Ghost]

Let's see if I can try my hand at this. In no particular order:

You've got the raspy type of vocals that are black-influenced but most of the times I wouldn't really consider to be black metal vocals. Two of the bigger bands I can think of with this type of vocal style are Children of Bodom (especially their first two albums) and Norther. It's high and raspy, but it's not the typical black metal shriek.

There's the really deep, hard to understand grunts (Yeah, once you're accustomed to them they're easier to understand, but bear with me right now). Mostly used with "brutal death" bands. I really couldn't tell you any specific examples of this, since most bands that use only this particular style of growl I tend to avoid.

There's the easier to understand growls, which while sometimes are still as deep they're also alot easier to get into, in my opinion. A prime example of this is Vader. Its growled and it's deep, but it's also completely understandable. Behemoth could also fall into this category.

The traditional black metal shriek. I'm going to side with Emerald Sword on this one, and say that Dimmu Borgir's In Sorte Diaboli album is a good example, though this type of vocal style could be found pretty much anywhere under the Black Metal banner as it's the most commonly used style in that subgenre.

Still, like Jim said, these are generalizations - it's probably best to take an individual vocalist on their own and evaluate whether you like them or not, rather than try and figure out what type of growling styles right off the bat.

 

[eppst1]

Amorphis- Better Unborn, Solefald- When the Moon is On the Wave (good call, you can hear Cornelius' vocal chords blowing out there), Edge of Sanity- Crimson, ?, ?.

I just dated myself there, didn't I?

4: Dark Tranquillity - The Wonders at Your Feet.
5: ?

 

[nailz]

3. A middle ground between the two extremes
4. Deep growl, but easily understandable

Do you remember what these were? I'm definitely interested.

 

[WarriorOfMetal]

5 is Night In Gales, but i can't think what song. i wouldn't think of thos Amorphis vocals as particularly deep and unintelligible. for deep and unintelligible, i'd go with about a third of Psycroptic's vocals (the other thirds being what are commonly referred to as "pig squeals" and a sort of middle ground low-ish death metal growl.