Getting into FOH mixing?

[GarethSE]

I know there's a lot of FOH engineers on here, ahjteam in particular, and I'm very interested to hear how you guys got started.

Also, which of you started off as engineers in studios (home or otherwise) and got into FOH after and which of you started out as FOH engineers first and later moved onto engineering in studios?

Cheers

 

[Fox Mulder]

Ignore my ignorance, what's FOH?

 

[GarethSE]

Front Of House

 

[arv_foh]

Mine was really by chance. I was going to shows around the time I was 17-18. I went to see a local band and the venue didn't have a lighting guy. I knew said band's music so the sound engineer showed me how to do lights. After that he asked me if I wanted to come back next week and get paid for it... so yeah I started out doing fucking lighting, which sucks IMO. Hahaha. So anyways I've been the venue LD for about a year and the FOH dude asks if I want to learn about sound, since lighting pretty much blows. I'm all about it. Learned as much as I could from him. He leaves and goes on tour about two years later and I take over FOH.

My advice would be to intern somewhere, and work for free for that place until they will pay you. I worked for basically chump change for 3 years before I made decent money. I had an intern who started for me 3 years ago who is now a great sound engineer, and I plan on having him take over for me should I ever move to a bigger venue or go on tour.

I started at FOH first and moved to studio second. I think doing the opposite would be much more difficult.

 

[Charlie E.]

I'm pretty new to live sound but so far it's sort of been a nightmare.
Very little setup time, not allowed to sound check mains only monitors (as per request of venue), many vocalists (3-5), many instruments (drums, 2 keys, drum machine, gtr, bass), tiny stage, no treatment and sounds bouncing all over the place, 4 different monitor mixes and 3 in ear monitor mixes, and there's always a singer who sings very soft and wants their monitor and in ear cranked but somehow wants me to magically remove all bleed... oh and they like to stand right next to the drummer too.

Does it ever get better?

So to answer your questions, I started as a recording engineer and got some live gigs through a friend who was desperate for a sub

 

[xconnyx]

i started off with doing home recording.

then my band had to be headliner on an outdoor festival. when we did sound check it sounded like crap. someone came on stage and said to me "hey i know you do studio stuff, could you mix the bands today?". and i gave it a shot. it worked out and i got addicted to do foh.

later i went into a local club an thought that it sounded a little to bad. so i went to the foh guy and said that i want to do foh there. and i mixed one show and got into the club as foh regular.

i'm not doing this club on a regular basis anymore. i'm more into doing foh for bands on tour. my next tour is about to start in under 2 weeks, i'll be on the road for 6 weeks i guess.

BUT what i love on doing foh is the fact that you can feel a lot more of the sound. and it is a bigger challenge i think. everything has to work out withing minutes. you cant just return the otherday and do it again.

i think the best way to learn foh is "learing by doing" find a band or a club to work with and get better.

 

[xconnyx]

My advice would be to intern somewhere, and work for free for that place until they will pay you. I worked for basically chump change for 3 years before I made decent money. I had an intern who started for me 3 years ago who is now a great sound engineer, and I plan on having him take over for me should I ever move to a bigger venue or go on tour.

I started at FOH first and moved to studio second. I think doing the opposite would be much more difficult.

the "work for free" thing is actually a good way, but it is complicated to tell someone to pay you if they haven't done it for years. it'll turn out that you have to change the club, but if you're getting good people will notice and you will start to work in different clubs anyway.

actually i would think that going from foh to studio is more difficult than from studio to foh

 

[egan.]

I started in the studio and then started doing FoH in a rock club, then moved to theatres, and then to sports arenas. I enjoy mixing bands but being a club guy will leave you deaf if you aren't careful.
The best thing you can do to learn to mix stage or monitors is to find yourself a mentor.

 

[DolphinSplatter]

I'm pretty new to live sound but so far it's sort of been a nightmare.
Very little setup time, not allowed to sound check mains only monitors (as per request of venue), many vocalists (3-5), many instruments (drums, 2 keys, drum machine, gtr, bass), tiny stage, no treatment and sounds bouncing all over the place, 4 different monitor mixes and 3 in ear monitor mixes, and there's always a singer who sings very soft and wants their monitor and in ear cranked but somehow wants me to magically remove all bleed... oh and they like to stand right next to the drummer too.

Does it ever get better?

So to answer your questions, I started as a recording engineer and got some live gigs through a friend who was desperate for a sub

where do you do foh?
churchill's is def a nightmare haha

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Hey you FOH guys, check this out:

http://www.softwareaudioconsole.com/

72 input mixer, with an additional 24 72 input sub-mixers. You can even slave another machine (say a laptop) via TCP/IP for wireless remote control. Use all your plugs, including drumagog. In real time. Un-fucking-real.
I've used it a few times, coupled with an RME 96/52, Digimax 96, ADA8000, & all I can say is, "wow." The bands were blown away too.

 

[egan.]

That's awesome, but I'll stick with digital console for the time being. No plugins (with most) but reliable, faders and wifi control if you want it. I mix some simple shows via tablet/laptop control of remote yamaha's and while it works well I need real faders for a band.

 

[arv_foh]

the "work for free" thing is actually a good way, but it is complicated to tell someone to pay you if they haven't done it for years. it'll turn out that you have to change the club, but if you're getting good people will notice and you will start to work in different clubs anyway.

actually i would think that going from foh to studio is more difficult than from studio to foh

Each of them have their own difficulties I suppose but when shit starts breaking/feeding back during a show and you have to fix it on the fly while still putting on a show.. I dunno man.. live is pretty stressful

Not that studio isn't but at least you have the time to figure stuff out instead of doing it while it's happening

 

[dontletmedrown]

Started out recording at home. Interned at a studio, then worked there for about 1.5 years. Worked FOH at a local venue for extra cash for about a year. I wouldn't say I hate it, but it got old really fast.

Some bands expect you to do some kind of radical metamorphasis to their sound. My favorite [sarcasm] is the guys who run out of breath and start to "mouth" the lyrics and I can see there is clearly no signal coming in and their friends in the audience yell, "Turn up the vocals dude!" Gee- why didn't I think of that? uke:

I still help out the local venue when they are in a jam, but I'd rather spend 100% of my time recording.

 

[garry666]

after finishing audio engineering school. i moved back home and there was this dude who had ben the foh guy for prety much every show that happened in town so i just went up to him chated for a bit and then asked if he needed a hand with some of the shows, i did a few for no pay and then started doing monitors ran them for a few shows including zimmers hole and three inches of blood and then started promting and running small local shows still working with the other soundguy, then he decided he didnt want to do metal anymore so i got all the metal gigs in town.

 

[Charlie E.]

where do you do foh?
churchill's is def a nightmare haha

I'm only filling in for a couple of nights at the Blue Martini. They've got a pretty nice setup there.
In Churchill's you're lucky if you get 1 monitor mix hah. Half the time the monitors don't even work there and neither do most of the panel inserts.

 

[fade_2_black]

I started off in the studio but am primarily a FOH engineer now.
Got into it originally as I worked as a stage tech in a small venue, was asked to mix a show one night when no engineer was available. Ended up being a pretty decent sized show and the mix went down real well. Was offered work more or less immediately, and quit my day job around 4-5 months later to do sound full-time.
Ive still only been mixing live shit for the best part of a year and I've done FOH tours with Krisiun, Cannibal Corpse, Dawn of Azazel and heaps of other shit artists. Its a fucking fun job.
Can get very stressful at times and the hours can fucking SUCK, but beats working in Mcdonalds

 

[Morgan C]

Out of curiosity, how do you guys deal with the volume?

Most sound engineers I see wear no hearing protection.. that kind of volume every single night would certainly take its toll quickly. And if you're using headphones you're going to get a pretty skewed perspective of the mix coming from the PA's (and still you'd get all the bleed from outside).

I come out of most gigs with a headache, I can't imagine doing that nightly.

 

[ahjteam]

I started in by mixing bands on of my local church youth center when I was 16 or something.

 

[punkrockacademyfightsong]

Out of curiosity, how do you guys deal with the volume?

Most sound engineers I see wear no hearing protection.. that kind of volume every single night would certainly take its toll quickly. And if you're using headphones you're going to get a pretty skewed perspective of the mix coming from the PA's (and still you'd get all the bleed from outside).

I come out of most gigs with a headache, I can't imagine doing that nightly.

I do quite a lot of FOH mixing (just did a month tour with Earth Crisis, have a few regular bands I do and do freelance work for festivals and clubs).
I always wear protection. When I'm doing a band I work for I take out my plugs during the last song of the band before them to let myself get used to the volume. Then I mix the first 2 songs without plugs to get everything set right and to see at what level the FX sound good. After that I just ride what I need to ride (mainly solo's, vocals, some FX and some bass parts) and check for e few seconds every now and then with my plugs out if everything is still ok.
When I work for a festival or club I do the first 2 songs of each band without plugs and keep them in most of the set.
I have 15 dB linear filters.

 

[Erkan]

Some bands expect you to do some kind of radical metamorphasis to their sound.

I lolled IRL reading this Awesomely put dude, and it goes for studio and everything else too. Some bands... some musicians... they're just completely retarded when it comes to the technical aspect of music. Pardon me, replace "some" with "MOST" instead. Most musicians... yes, that sounds better. I'm so glad I'm into this engineering stuff WHILE being a musician. I can imagine whenever I enter another studio, people there will love working with me because I understand the fucking limitations of reality, haha

Anyway, this shit is going down into my sig!