Gigging: Any point these days?

[amarshism]

A band is made and proven on the road. You get out what you put in. It's not just the punters a shows but the respect you earn from the bands who've gone before you, developing your stage show and learning what works and doesn't. Where and when. And why. Of course your music has to be good, I mean it has to be great, but touring is one often overlooked aspect of writing great music. It doesn't all happen in the jam room or at the studio. It makes you feel like a touring musician because you are one and that contributes greatly to the mindset. I've made a lot of sacrifices in the 8 years I've been touring, the road has shaped me physically and mentally, and greatly affects the person I am and the music I write. This week we just signed to a label that you ALL know the name of, I owe it all to the road.

 

[FischmungaXTR]

I just got back from playing a sold out village hall in the middle of nowhere with my folk band. Our gigs are always packed and the whole band earn a living wage from gigging.

My metal band always had a meagre and boring crowd.

TBH i think it comes down how good your band is as a live show. If people are actually coming and enjoying themselves then of course there is a point. However, many of these hard working touring bands just fail to realise that they are shit in a live situation. Why would people pay to see a gig that they wont enjoy?

 

[smy1]

Also, I'm the bald guy who wears black. Not sure what your problem is with my "image" though... I'm not into mohawks or any of that shit, and personally, anyone who listens to an artist just because they look "cool" - well... they can eat a dick. I don't need a mohawk!

That's exactly why I said earlier that you'll take everything I say personally/as an insult. I don't have a problem with your image - you just look different from all the other guys in the band. That's not coherent. And you look the least "rock/metal" - if that's what your band is going for (according to your tags on bandcamp). A mohawk and sunglasses are nothing new (I ripped the look from KMFDM) but they are very defining for my genre/niche because no one currently looks like that - which makes me stick out among all the bands who wear black.

You complain about the fact that not many people are interested in your band and you still have to play shitty gigs but you disregard the fact that a lot of people get into a band because they look cool and sound good. Those may be the "knuckleheads" but those are the majority of people who go to gigs. That's why Mötley Crue outsell Dream Theater 20:1 still today (and I personally prefer DT by far).

You obviously don't have to agree with anything I say, but trust me: 99% of all labels, venues, promoters, agencies and fans think exactly like that.

 

[smy1]

I just got back from playing a sold out village hall in the middle of nowhere with my folk band. Our gigs are always packed and the whole band earn a living wage from gigging.

My metal band always had a meagre and boring crowd.

TBH i think it comes down how good your band is as a live show. If people are actually coming and enjoying themselves then of course there is a point. However, many of these hard working touring bands just fail to realise that they are shit in a live situation. Why would people pay to see a gig that they wont enjoy?

Totally understandable! Folk is usually simple, has singalong melodies and lyrics about life, death, struggle, love and everyday things. I'd probably go see a folk band before I see the average unsigned metal band!

 

[drew_drummer]

No bro I didn't take it personally, I just found what you said amusing. And let me be clear; I'm not complaining. Just exploring the topic. Not every gig we play is shitty, but they've all been in smaller areas to some extent, and I agree it needs to be fun. Right now I don't think I am having fun.

Our vocalist is out of the picture anyway, as he left. Our old bassist left. So basically we've been in an 8 month slump... and I guess I'm just feeling that at the moment.

I get that there are certain things that will make a band more palatable and more "interesting" to most people, but I have to say reading back over this thread... there isn't a lot here that I've not already considered and I can't relate to statements like "I don't hear any surprises" or "you look the least metal" ... I just don't relate to that viewpoint. Surprising is way down the list of things I look for in music.

I 100% agree that we're not really metal, but when you've got Metal Hammer calling you the logical successors to ISIS... it seems to help us to use those terms.

What you call 3 minutes of intro, I call (and experience I'd add) an ascension of the mind, picking up your spirit and letting it crash on the rocks below. I could twist that in some sort of metaphor for the music if you're really inclined.

I agree with the name too - it is long and difficult for people to understand. Sort of feel stuck with it now though.

I thank you for your opinions Sami, and I'll link them to the rest of the band to see what they think, because it is possible I'm just acting like an asshole when I say all this.

 

[smy1]

Ultimately though, focusing on the point of the thread, live music... I guess I'm particularly London centric... but here it mostly is a waste of time. Was kind of curious to hear how it is in other countries.

I used to go to London every 3-4 weeks because my girl lived on Kentish Town Road/Camden and I don't understand why you say that playing live in London is a waste of time? There's a rock/metal band playing almost every day of the week and playing in a MAJOR city means learning how to win over bored/critical audiences. If you can win the audience in London you can win them everywhere - it's a skill that a lot of bands don't have though!

I think if a band's goal is to start locally they should play a show every 3 months (no matter how crappy) and literally PLASTER everything with their posters and flyers. People need to be sick of seeing the band name. Every city has a bunch of clubs/bars that are the main hangouts for everyone who listens to a certain music. If their toilets aren't completely full of stickers from that local band then they are doing their promotion wrong. After a year or two people will just assume the band is good because it is still there.

That's another rule in the music biz: you'll get more successful with time because 99% of the other bands fall by the wayside. And if people see you back in the mags/gigs/etc. year after year they assume you are "good".

 

[drew_drummer]

I used to go to London every 3-4 weeks because my girl lived on Kentish Town Road/Camden and I don't understand why you say that playing live in London is a waste of time? There's a rock/metal band playing almost every day of the week and playing in a MAJOR city means learning how to win over bored/critical audiences. If you can win the audience in London you can win them everywhere - it's a skill that a lot of bands don't have though!

Well the vast majority of promoters engage in pay to play and door-tally systems, whilst doing very little promotion themselves - or if they do any promotion, it's all stuff you can do for yourself as a band very easily.

But what this leads to is these promoters put on nights where the bands are woefully inconsistent - a metal band, a jazz band, a prog-rock band, and an acoustic songwriter. This then leads to each act bringing their own crowd, usually just their friends, who only arrive 30 minutes before their friends band is about to play, and then they leave 30 minutes after they've played.

So there is basically no cross-pollination in this respect.

The best gigs we've done are where we hired the venue. We hired out 93FeetEast in Brick Lane for our Exegesis album launch, and we filled that place. Must've been about 180 people in there. In London, even if you're a signed band, this is very hard to do. We've done it twice now.

Both nights the bar made over £1200, so our hire-free was then basically free. We made some money, but nowhere near £1200.

I've seen bands who I considered our peers, only pull 20-30 people before, and some of these guys are signed.

I think if a band's goal is to start locally they should play a show every 3 months (no matter how crappy) and literally PLASTER everything with their posters and flyers. People need to be sick of seeing the band name. Every city has a bunch of clubs/bars that are the main hangouts for everyone who listens to a certain music. If their toilets aren't completely full of stickers from that local band then they are doing their promotion wrong. After a year or two people will just assume the band is good because it is still there.

Possibly. I know myself though that if I see a sticker in a toilet, I wont even look at it. I've never discovered a band in a toilet.

Flyering venues is a good way to spread your band though. We've had some promoters get in touch after we've done that.

That's another rule in the music biz: you'll get more successful with time because 99% of the other bands fall by the wayside. And if people see you back in the mags/gigs/etc. year after year they assume you are "good".

Time does help for certain. I think we're coming up to our 5th year now. As I say, the last 8 months have basically been a complete wipe-out due to band members leaving.

 

[Clockwork]

There is a lot of good advice in this thread already.

My own two cents after just getting off tour with my non-metal band. The shows at big venues we thought would be awesome had low turnout and no one cared, the house shows ended up gaining us way more fans (judged based on facebook) because the people there came to hear music. For the most part even the shows where we play to fifteen people are usually beneficial because we often connect with the other bands/ the soundguys etc... and they seem to get the word out way more than the usual bar/club patrons so I would say some shows even if they suck may still be better than not playing them. I guess it's about playing to your target audience, but I dunno I'm still young and naive so what do I know.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Well, since this turned into a what bands do wrong thread, I'll throw up my ideas as someone who has been a spectator for the last 8 years.

1. Shows with more than 4 bands, can't stand them and you are not doing yourself a favor by booking on with them. I like the 4 band show if it goes: noob opener, 2 local solids, small touring band. Any more and I'm either ducking early, or showing up late.
2. Inaccesability to your music. If I like your shit, I should be able to obtain it easily via paid download or if I like you enough physical copy at your show. Tell me where to buy it as well, don't make me hunt. Having it stream on youtube or facebook does not count as easy accesability. There is pretty much no excuse in my book for not having music available to those that want it. Even the local vets who are my age now and still doing metal are notorius for this stupid mistake. Even if your last recording is now 5 years old, I should still be able to buy it.
3. You play 5 songs at a show, I can't remember a single fucking one or they all mash together and I had no idea you played 5 songs when it sounded like 2 or 3.
4. Singer insists on telling the crowd to move forward... more than once.
5. Singer wants to show me his ass the entire show, I'm not gay lets see your face.
6. Really nice recording, live show is shit. I'll never come see you again, this is a promise.
7. I'll use Tesseract as an example: "hey we are going to put out a record at this time" <--- ultra fail to deliver. Seems thier label is wooping that ass though.
8. Bad singers. It's a giant turn off for me, fire that kunt and get someone who can hold a tune.
9. Poor audio youtube live videos. Poor audio for a live video is just not acceptable anymore (unless it's something an attendee shot), you can get the old zoom q3 for less than 100 bucks now and the audio will be considerably better than any 300 dollar sony handycam. When it comes to live video the audio should always be the priority. I do not care that said live vid was shot in HD if the audio sounds like "hey were are _____ and this song is called _____ SHSHSHSHSHAHASDFAHSHSHSHS!!!!!"
10. Trying to sell me a $22 ticket for the show you are trying to buy onto, and I hate all the bands you are playing with.

 

[LeSedna]

Dude if the singer is not there anymore, nor the bassist, maybe it's the best time ever for you to think about changing something

@Loren what's that Tesseract quote ? Do they suck live ?

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

In the past they have said that they would put out a record within a certain time period and failed to deliver pretty miserably.

Doesn't seem to be the case anymore though.

My point was that setting deadlines and not meeting them is shitty.

 

[HCL]

Possibly. I know myself though that if I see a sticker in a toilet, I wont even look at it. I've never discovered a band in a toilet.

Stickers (and a ton of promotional stuff actually) are less about getting noticed and more about reinforcement. You might see a sticker, or an interview or an advert and think 'hey, it's ______'. Mission accomplished, they're now a bigger blip on your radar.

 

[Mashreef]

I just one to say STOP PLAYING COVERS
GET DOWN WITH YOUR OWN NUMBER'S

 

[CubanDude]

Good post by sami, although his comment about the bald head is a bit offensive Maybe I'll get back to you in a while to get some crit on my stuff

 

[Pot]

Many thx to smy1...a lot of good info there

 

[AD Chaos]

Great posts in these subjects as always Samy

@Drew: Your music sounds introspective/interesting to me!
I think you should make members of your band leaving into an opportunity to revamp the image of your band altogether; the bandcamp layout needs improving, the band logo is quite unattractive, and as others have said, for sure the band name has to change. One or two words, tops, something that conveys the vibe/atmospheres of the music.

..something ala Alice In Chains, I'd say.

 

[CubanDude]

Samy, I'm actually quite interested in the following and I'd be very glad if you could share some insight. What does running your own label means in terms of what different topics does in cover and what kinda things do you have to take care of (jobs revolve aroung having a label)?

 

[Grå Värld]

My 2 cents ( I actually really like the songs and the recording so congrats on that)
1. A single word name would work heaps better for your band eg Tacoma or Sungazer
2. Your songs sound like Isis and make me want to listen to Isis so a new element needs to be added eg fast parts occasionally or more varied vocals so I will stay and listen to your band
3. Be realistic about how big your band can get - I think without changing something you can't expect any further growth in fans
4. From experience playing tours and shows with bigger bands (Carcass/Behemoth/Grave/Ulcerate ect) was down to knowing the promoters and bigger bands in the scene - networking is worth more than talent sometimes
5. Maybe try and do a digital split with a bigger band in your genre eg Jakob from NZ
6. Playing shows should be about fun not profit

 

[Sloan]

Play everywhere but local

 

[if6was9]

Interesting thread.

I believe in playing live and being able to deliver a good show. My band play a fair bit, probably averages out at a gig every week or so over the year and I work as a live engineer and also a promoter so when I'm not gigging myself I'm out working at gigs or organising them. We went on a week long tour overseas last year and we're planning a 2 week long trek covering some more distance in May. We've played a good few good support gigs to some of our favourite bands and they wouldn't have happened if we didn't gig as much as we do.

My big problem is that most bands are terrible live. They have tuning problems,crap tone, they have huge awkward gaps between songs and they put zero effort into a show or to making it their set better than average. I've seen bands clear out a room accidentally letting their guitars feedback before they start their set and then give out on stage that there's no crowd, not even realising that their actions drove them away in the first place. You need to put in the effort to be better than just okay. When a band come with their shit together you notice it very quickly.

I don't see the point in being in a band just for the sake of it and playing shitty gigs. The point of being in a band is that you make good music and you gig to play this good music live for people. For a lot of bands this doesn't seem to be the case.

To me gigging is worth while when every single show you play you impress the crowd. That won't happen if you gig 5 times a year as you won't be comfortable on stage and you won't have the tightness and "one-ness" that gigging gets you. Jamming at rehearsal just is never the same. If you play live alot, you get good at playing together and this makes you a better band. Period.

I also got strongly disagree with the no-instrumental attitude. I've played with plenty of great, touring intrumental bands that seem to be doing very well for themselves, and wouldn't be any bigger if they'd vocals. When it's a niche market you're never gonna be competing with the rolling stones or katy perry. My own band are instrumental too, and we were much better off now than when we used to have vocals- we get a much wider crowd now than we did when our music was tied down to the style of vocal we used.

My band have paid for tracks on Magazine cover cd's and ads in mags. How much exposure it gets you comes down to you really, you've got to publicise the fact you're in a magazine. Put it on your twitter and facebook and stick in in your band updates on whatever forums you use in your music scene. The more people see your band name the bigger you seem in their head.

Bit ranty there but I suppose to sum it up- If you are a good, above average band who put in the work then gigging often is worth while and will pay off. If not then don't bother, it's a waste of your time and ours.