Quick guitar tone in a mix context test, using my ENGL SE 6L6 with the Torpedo VB-101, which is a hardware loadbox+cab/mic/miking simulator (see other related threads here : http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...-101-hardware-loadbox-cab-mic-miking-sim.html)
Just 2 rythm guitars tracks (i don't like quad-tracked tones much), hard-panned each, same guitar but slight EQ changes on the SE between the 2 (left is more scooped, right is more middy).
Guitars Post-EQ in my DAW : slight boost around 5khz for air, and high cut @12khz
-> cab/speakers/mic i used, close-miked each time (the Royer was placed a few inches back though) :
1) Engl412 V30 + Blue Dragonfly condenser
2) Engl412 V30 + SM57
3) Mesa 412 V30 rectifier standard open + Royer R121
Clips and details below (dated 2009-12-11) :
http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=user&value=djabthrash
or here (also in the same folder some old clips (dated 20090502 + "OLD") with same cab/mic combinations but different settings i did a while back, see those threads : http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...-101-hardware-loadbox-cab-mic-miking-sim.html & http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...ut-guitar-tone-mix-context-punk-rock-ish.html) :
http://gabriel.nodet.free.fr/20091210tonetest/
Let me know what you guys think.
I'm aiming for a kinda Pantera-ish tone, very sharp, detailed, a shitload of presence, distorted but not too much, not smooth/polished, not too fat either. Me like some middy chunk. Something along the lines of Pantera's very bright/sharp/attack-full tone meets Alice in Chains rock-ish crunch/chunk, see ?
While listening keep in mind the following :
- the strings are 6 months old (i'm a lazy fuck, i'm gonna rerecord with brand new strings soon and see how different it sounds)
- the playing is sloppy as hell
I think i might have overdone the "let's cut the low-end/low mids and focus on the good mids" thingie, hence my clips lacking some low-end/lo mids, so i brought some back with a wide 400Hz boost on post EQ.
MY ANALYSIS FOR NOW : old clips are a tad too scooped, and mids are not quite there. So they were too buried in the mix IMO.
New clips are better in terms of mids and are more defined, but I’ve lost too much low end/body and also have too much hi end harshness and/or fizz left. Now they’re too distinct (as opposed to buried) and do not glue with the mix enough.
Keep in mind I don’t like scooped tones much, I like middy tones with defined grit, more crunchy then very gainy, tight as fuck without sounding too polished/clean, aggressive.
Still, the “Mix20091210_01_Engl30_Condenser_BodyBoost.mp3” clip feels kinda right to me, so I might go on that “preset” and bring back some low end/lo mid I’ve previously cut in my preset (and brought back artificially with a 400 Hz boost post EQ).
I still find the SM57 too smooth/polished and less ENGL-flattering like.
To sum up, I can't seem to make up my mind between the Condenser Mic and the SM57. I like the character/overall tone of the first one, but the second one seems clearer and more mix-friendly. So i tried to combine them (one on each side) to see if i can get the best of both worlds without having a tonal inbalance (i.e guitar tones too different from one side to another) as a downside.
So for now my “trails” for future improvements/shootouts are :
 bring back some low end/low mids in the torpedo post EQ (slight tweaking, I may have cut a tad too much)
 putting new strings will help with clarity/definition
 try some other combinations with the ENGL SE voicing switches : contour, mid edge, depth boost
 mixing the Condenser Mic and the SM57 (one on each side, one way and the other since my left guitar has more scooped settings and the right one has middier settings) (no quadtracking though, I prefer dualtracked)
My reference tones :
Pantera on Reinventing the steel (almost perfect), Vulgar Display of Power (but a tad less gainy and scooped), Cowboys from Hell, live 101 proof (live tracks + unreleased studio tracks)
Teamkiller “bad signs” (almost perfect tone also)
Feared/Ola recent stuff (but less fat/beefy, more hi middy)
Rag men on the self-titled album (tracks : “insomnia”, “my world”
Stuck Mojo on “rising”/HVY1 (live) (but crunchier, less gainy/smooth/polished/modern, less Sneap/Lasse 57 
Alabama Thunderpussy on “open fire “ (but less fat/round/low middy)
E Town concrete “the renaissance” (but less fat) & “made for war”
God Forbid on “determination” & “gone forever” (tight !)
Gibson5413 user ENGL SE clips on soundclick & netmusicians.net
Rebel Meets Rebel album
Anthrax “the greater of 2 evils”
Agents of Man “count your blessings”
Dying Fetus “Descend into depravity”
Pennywise : “Full Circle”
Downset : “do we speak a dead language” ?
Daath : “the concealers”
I’ve listened to my samples so many times that I don’t know what to think anymore, I’d like to hear your feedback.
EDIT : 2009-12-17 :
New clips (dual-tracked guitars, hard-panned on each side, in a mix context and solo-ed, brand new strings this time, Torpedo built-in EQ changes to cut less lows/low mids/body and increase the mids/highs attack/agressivity/sharpness), see the 2009-12-17 samples below (details included) :
http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=user&value=djabthrash
or here (.mp3 samples only, no details) :
http://gabriel.nodet.free.fr/20091216tonetest/
This time i cut less Lows/Low mids in the Torpedo built in EQ than last time, i also boosted some mids/hi mids/highs & exciter (@3Hz for attack) a bit more. Finally i reduced the guitars volume a bit to fit the mix (since i boosted frequencies that make them cut through better beforehand) and let the bass & drums be heard.
I still can't seem to make up my mind between the Condenser Mic and the SM57.
My ideal tone would be clear/defined/detailed, yet "agressive/face-ripping/razor sharp", not too modern-sounding, well basically something along the lines of Pantera (agressive/face-ripping/razor sharp), Pennywise (punk-rock-ish), & Alice in chains (rock/crunch/chunk).
EDIT 2 : 2009-12-22 :
New clips (dual-tracked guitars, hard-panned on each side, in a mix context and solo-ed, brand new strings this time, Torpedo built-in EQ & Exciter changes to cut even less lows/low mids/body and increase the mids/highs attack/agressivity/sharpness), see the 2009-12-20 samples below (details included) :
http://www.netmusicians.org/?section=user&value=djabthrash
or here (.mp3 samples only, no details) :
http://gabriel.nodet.free.fr/20091220tonetest/
Compared to my previous clips (2009-12-17) i raised the bass knob a wee bit (+ 0,5) on my amp EQ and raised each of the Torpedo built-in EQ knobs a tad (+1) and the exciter value (+2%) also.
I also gave the MD421 mic a try, but i kept the same settings as with my SM57 patch. It sounds decent but i guess i need to adjust the settings to the MD421 to get a better tone.
Also in addition to the usual punk-rock-ish snippet, i posted clips of some other songs that sound more metal/HxC.
DISCLAIMER : the playing is SLOPPY AS FUCK (a lotta huge mistakes here)
By the way i put a new 9V battery for my EMG81 but it didn't change the tone much, so i put the old one back in place (i guess it's still ok).
EDIT 3 : 2010-02-15 :
posted new clips with improved mix (less guitars, less overheads, more bass) IMO on 2010-02-15)
http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=user&value=djabthrash
Just 2 rythm guitars tracks (i don't like quad-tracked tones much), hard-panned each, same guitar but slight EQ changes on the SE between the 2 (left is more scooped, right is more middy).
Guitars Post-EQ in my DAW : slight boost around 5khz for air, and high cut @12khz
-> cab/speakers/mic i used, close-miked each time (the Royer was placed a few inches back though) :
1) Engl412 V30 + Blue Dragonfly condenser
2) Engl412 V30 + SM57
3) Mesa 412 V30 rectifier standard open + Royer R121
Clips and details below (dated 2009-12-11) :
http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=user&value=djabthrash
or here (also in the same folder some old clips (dated 20090502 + "OLD") with same cab/mic combinations but different settings i did a while back, see those threads : http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...-101-hardware-loadbox-cab-mic-miking-sim.html & http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...ut-guitar-tone-mix-context-punk-rock-ish.html) :
http://gabriel.nodet.free.fr/20091210tonetest/
Let me know what you guys think.
I'm aiming for a kinda Pantera-ish tone, very sharp, detailed, a shitload of presence, distorted but not too much, not smooth/polished, not too fat either. Me like some middy chunk. Something along the lines of Pantera's very bright/sharp/attack-full tone meets Alice in Chains rock-ish crunch/chunk, see ?
While listening keep in mind the following :
- the strings are 6 months old (i'm a lazy fuck, i'm gonna rerecord with brand new strings soon and see how different it sounds)
- the playing is sloppy as hell
I think i might have overdone the "let's cut the low-end/low mids and focus on the good mids" thingie, hence my clips lacking some low-end/lo mids, so i brought some back with a wide 400Hz boost on post EQ.
MY ANALYSIS FOR NOW : old clips are a tad too scooped, and mids are not quite there. So they were too buried in the mix IMO.
New clips are better in terms of mids and are more defined, but I’ve lost too much low end/body and also have too much hi end harshness and/or fizz left. Now they’re too distinct (as opposed to buried) and do not glue with the mix enough.
Keep in mind I don’t like scooped tones much, I like middy tones with defined grit, more crunchy then very gainy, tight as fuck without sounding too polished/clean, aggressive.
Still, the “Mix20091210_01_Engl30_Condenser_BodyBoost.mp3” clip feels kinda right to me, so I might go on that “preset” and bring back some low end/lo mid I’ve previously cut in my preset (and brought back artificially with a 400 Hz boost post EQ).
I still find the SM57 too smooth/polished and less ENGL-flattering like.
To sum up, I can't seem to make up my mind between the Condenser Mic and the SM57. I like the character/overall tone of the first one, but the second one seems clearer and more mix-friendly. So i tried to combine them (one on each side) to see if i can get the best of both worlds without having a tonal inbalance (i.e guitar tones too different from one side to another) as a downside.
So for now my “trails” for future improvements/shootouts are :
 bring back some low end/low mids in the torpedo post EQ (slight tweaking, I may have cut a tad too much)
 putting new strings will help with clarity/definition
 try some other combinations with the ENGL SE voicing switches : contour, mid edge, depth boost
 mixing the Condenser Mic and the SM57 (one on each side, one way and the other since my left guitar has more scooped settings and the right one has middier settings) (no quadtracking though, I prefer dualtracked)
My reference tones :
Pantera on Reinventing the steel (almost perfect), Vulgar Display of Power (but a tad less gainy and scooped), Cowboys from Hell, live 101 proof (live tracks + unreleased studio tracks)
Teamkiller “bad signs” (almost perfect tone also)
Feared/Ola recent stuff (but less fat/beefy, more hi middy)
Rag men on the self-titled album (tracks : “insomnia”, “my world”
Stuck Mojo on “rising”/HVY1 (live) (but crunchier, less gainy/smooth/polished/modern, less Sneap/Lasse 57 
Alabama Thunderpussy on “open fire “ (but less fat/round/low middy)
E Town concrete “the renaissance” (but less fat) & “made for war”
God Forbid on “determination” & “gone forever” (tight !)
Gibson5413 user ENGL SE clips on soundclick & netmusicians.net
Rebel Meets Rebel album
Anthrax “the greater of 2 evils”
Agents of Man “count your blessings”
Dying Fetus “Descend into depravity”
Pennywise : “Full Circle”
Downset : “do we speak a dead language” ?
Daath : “the concealers”
I’ve listened to my samples so many times that I don’t know what to think anymore, I’d like to hear your feedback.
EDIT : 2009-12-17 :
New clips (dual-tracked guitars, hard-panned on each side, in a mix context and solo-ed, brand new strings this time, Torpedo built-in EQ changes to cut less lows/low mids/body and increase the mids/highs attack/agressivity/sharpness), see the 2009-12-17 samples below (details included) :
http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=user&value=djabthrash
or here (.mp3 samples only, no details) :
http://gabriel.nodet.free.fr/20091216tonetest/
This time i cut less Lows/Low mids in the Torpedo built in EQ than last time, i also boosted some mids/hi mids/highs & exciter (@3Hz for attack) a bit more. Finally i reduced the guitars volume a bit to fit the mix (since i boosted frequencies that make them cut through better beforehand) and let the bass & drums be heard.
I still can't seem to make up my mind between the Condenser Mic and the SM57.
My ideal tone would be clear/defined/detailed, yet "agressive/face-ripping/razor sharp", not too modern-sounding, well basically something along the lines of Pantera (agressive/face-ripping/razor sharp), Pennywise (punk-rock-ish), & Alice in chains (rock/crunch/chunk).
EDIT 2 : 2009-12-22 :
New clips (dual-tracked guitars, hard-panned on each side, in a mix context and solo-ed, brand new strings this time, Torpedo built-in EQ & Exciter changes to cut even less lows/low mids/body and increase the mids/highs attack/agressivity/sharpness), see the 2009-12-20 samples below (details included) :
http://www.netmusicians.org/?section=user&value=djabthrash
or here (.mp3 samples only, no details) :
http://gabriel.nodet.free.fr/20091220tonetest/
Compared to my previous clips (2009-12-17) i raised the bass knob a wee bit (+ 0,5) on my amp EQ and raised each of the Torpedo built-in EQ knobs a tad (+1) and the exciter value (+2%) also.
I also gave the MD421 mic a try, but i kept the same settings as with my SM57 patch. It sounds decent but i guess i need to adjust the settings to the MD421 to get a better tone.
Also in addition to the usual punk-rock-ish snippet, i posted clips of some other songs that sound more metal/HxC.
DISCLAIMER : the playing is SLOPPY AS FUCK (a lotta huge mistakes here)
By the way i put a new 9V battery for my EMG81 but it didn't change the tone much, so i put the old one back in place (i guess it's still ok).
EDIT 3 : 2010-02-15 :
posted new clips with improved mix (less guitars, less overheads, more bass) IMO on 2010-02-15)
http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=user&value=djabthrash
