Great sounding records withOUT samples

How 'bout "Betty" by Helmet? I love the song "I Know" just for the drum intro, that's my all time favorite drum sound right there.

Edit: "The Brown Album" by Primus is another great one. Tracked completely analog by Les himself too.
 
Winds of Creation sounds pretty natural, especially compared to their newer shit. May be just some very tasty blending though.

Also Heartwork?????
Does that have samples or what. It sounds pretty rad.
 
Am i btw the only one who thinks that engineering a good kick is being lost by the growing possibility's of sample replacement?
Its obviously a age related thing (when i started of mixing there was allready drumagog) but still, its a damn shame that sample replacement is useally the first thing to reach for when the acoustic kick ain't working.

I'm allready heavy into drumtuning and micplacing at the moment to take out this weakspot in my enginering skills anyway :)
 
you guy's are all just spinning in circles on this and are no closer to the reality of it than you were at the top.... first of all, show me a killer sounding metal album with zero sample replacement and what you will really be showing me is a metal record with a killer drummer. bottom line. using sample replacement is almost always done to cover inconsistencies in the playing that even very good players can exhibit when trying to play such a demanding musical form as metal... not because the engineer can't record a good kick. Andy, Colin, Zeuss, etc etc... all use kick samples... and Seizure, it's not because the "kick ain't working" because of of a deficit in engineering skill... the deficit lies elsewhere. And where do you think the great kick samples come from, eh? turns out it's from the not-so-lost art of engineering a good kick. the real problem i think is that so many young guys with no real experience are "mixing" these days... guys that have never actually even recorded a kick. these kinds of guys "throw the curve" if you consider them... i say we shouldn't... let's talk about real engineers here... why lower the bar?

anyway i see all this crying against "triggering"... i'm sure what everyone means is "sample replacement"... but you know what? put up or shut up... because the day any of you can play me a killer metal mix you've done without needing to replace at least some of the hits with samples is the day i steal your drummer. Am i the only one that's just so tired of all the talking-out-the-arse that goes on here sometimes... or am i just a big poopy-head? good grief.
 
James Murphy said:
you guy's are all just spinning in circles on this and are no closer to the reality of it than you were at the top.... first of all, show me a killer sounding metal album with zero sample replacement and what you will really be showing me is a metal record with a killer drummer. bottom line. using sample replacement is almost always done to cover inconsistencies in the playing that even very good players can exhibit when trying to play such a demanding musical form as metal... not because the engineer can't record a good kick. Andy, Colin, Zeuss, etc etc... all use kick samples... and Seizure, it's not because the "kick ain't working" because of of a deficit in engineering skill... the deficit lies elsewhere. And where do you think the great kick samples come from, eh? turns out it's from the not-so-lost art of engineering a good kick. the real problem i think is that so many young guys with no real experience are "mixing" these days... guys that have never actually even recorded a kick. these kinds of guys "throw the curve" if you consider them... i say we shouldn't... let's talk about real engineers here... why lower the bar?

anyway i see all this crying against "triggering"... i'm sure what everyone means is "sample replacement"... but you know what? put up or shut up... because the day any of you can play me a killer metal mix you've done without needing to replace at least some of the hits with samples is the day i steal your drummer. Am i the only one that's just so tired of all the talking-out-the-arse that goes on here sometimes... or am i just a big poopy-head? good grief.
Click to expand...
Here Here!
 
You are right James, the better the drummer = less need for samples, but the original idea of this thread was to compliment on engineers/drummers that took the time to get a good sound using the natrual source. But it's clear that most of us can't tell the difference when the sample replacement its done the right way. I'm sure if you or Andy had the time, you guys could get kick ass drums sound without samples.

But when you are on a schedule (as Andy's) ...samples will get the job done. And the man its right....who gives a shit? 99.9% wont be able to tell the difference anyway. Painkiller and War of Words are 100% sample drums and its not because Scott Travis is a shitty player. The producer made that choice period.

The point is, if somebody took the time and did a good job without samples, I say:kickass:
 
I'm was btw still talking about the guys like me just starting out james, and i was starting to see a trend in a group similar like me who instead of saying to the inconsistent drummer they suck and practice more, or in the case of a crappy kickdrum: tuning it, etc etc start drumagogging first instead of treating it at the source.

Even though this is also happening because alot of guys starting don't have the best gear (lowend is a bitch to get right.. and its the first thing to suffer from average/crappy preamps/converters) its still a bad progression in music production don't you say?

Next to that.. its also happening on alot of drummers who ARE good and get sample replaced anyway.

And i'm not judging you or andy or CLA for sample replacing, i was more talking about a large portion of this forum who are still learning and taking the easy route of drumagogging.

But hey.. i'm also a big Steve Albini fan so i got the same thing about editting, and eventhough i still mix/record my stuff pretty "modern" i sure as hell don't like everything going on in current music production
 
oh, ok... well... i'm a poophead then..... btw way, i like Albini's work too and was just spinning Dystrhythmia's "Pretest" CD yesterday... but that's not exactly a metal album, nor is any of the rest of his work really... closest he's come to "metal" has been Helmet... all his rock work, like Nirvana's In Utero, or the Breeders, The Pixes, Veruca Salt, Low... none of them really have a drumming style that comes close to the demands of metal.... not to say it's not good drumming or skillful... good rock drumming is very demanding in it's own right in terms of playing with killer "pocket", etc.... but it's a lot easier to maintain appropriate dynamics for even a decent rock drummer than it often is for even very good metal drummers to do so given the demands of the genre (fast double kick, blasts, etc.).
 
Yeah, rock and metal are totally different beasts when it comes to the possibility's you have as a engineer/mixer, i agree that most fast metalbands need samples to come across in both studio/live.
There's no escaping in that case.

Allthough zack ohren did an amazing job on the last Odius Mortem record, he only augmented the kick with his own kicksound slightly and thats it, and odious mortem are crrraaazzzy fast, http://www.myspace.com/odiousmortem , http://www.myspace.com/castleultimate, and Close to a world below by Immolation has got a pretty good natural drumsound aswell imo.
 
Jup! and i said it was a necesity for fast blasty stuff hehe, still pretty rare the even kept the original sound in this kind of music :)

Great drumsounds on alot of castleultimate's productions btw! great studio!
 
i think sound replacement is one of the best tools out there. with that said. ive read that jimmy chamberlin on the new pumpkins album is all natrual. ive seen some studio shots of the setup as well and it looks legitimate. but yeah hes an animal on the kit!!! and +1 on the dead eye. i love those drums.
 
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