Guitar tones.. give up?

MetalJonesy

MetalJonesy

more metal, more booze!!!
Oct 18, 2007
3,596
0
36
Darlington/Manchester UK
www.mangledaudio.com
Right, this is really really bugging me at the moment. No matter what V30 cab im using, i still seem to struggle to get a decent unprocessed sound out of it. I've been trying all afternoon with different mic positions, different combinations of mic, different amp settings etc etc, but it always sounds like shit until i start post processing it!

I've tried the cab in all sorts of locations (in a large room, small room, live sounding room, and it's now in an ISO booth ive made)

my general rule is to start off with the mic roughly sneap positioned, then play around from there.

Using V30's, SM57, 6505, TS9

I just feel frustrated as i seem to be letting myself down on my productions with this!

Basically, just tips and tricks! i know it's an age old topic but i find it hit and miss sometimes with what im doing when reamping!
 
Yeah it's rare for me to be happy with any amp recordings. Even back when I was doing it regularly, I'd only be happy with like 30% of the tones I pulled. I was always going back to reamp again, or replay some parts.

The problem with many of these amp, speaker and cab combos is that they're just full of useless junk frequencies that aren't conducive to the mix whatsoever. The only real pointer I can give is that I've always had better success tracking amps very dark and brightening afterward. Also making sure that the fundamental mid proportions are right. Some raw tones sound really full when you hear them by themselves, but you high pass those lows away, and take out the super fizz-highs and you're left with nothing but ringy shit. Single mic mic'ing is especially difficult because then you factor in the mic's junk too. 57s are full of it. So in some sense going for dual mic'ing techniques if you're crafty enough you can use two mics in different positions to try to cancel each others' junk out, but then that creates phase and frequency reinforcement related junk too, so it's hard to win.

Getting truly good guitar tones is one of the hardest things ever.
 
i totally agree on you about getting the mids right and perhaps tracking darker! i was getting better tones from backing off on the pres and treble quite a bit and putting more mids in than usual!

Cheers for the input Ermin, glad it's not me who gets this frustrated!
 
Maybe you are just being too critical of your own work. I do it all the time. I always feel like something could be a bit better, yet others are more than happy with the results.

Never give up! Maybe you just need some unbiased ears.
 
I've been working on getting good miced tones quite a bit lately. It seems that a lot of people here prefer to mic the bottom cab speakers due to them sounding more full, but I've had much better luck on the top speakers. I find that they sound more open/less stuffy, especially in the mids. The bass frequencies are more controlled as well. I just find the bottom speakers way too congested-souding, if that makes any sense.

This is with a Rivera K412T (slant) with V30's on casters.

Try the top speakers if you haven't yet.
 
+1

I wasn't happy with the RIE guitars, but the band liked it and I thought its passable....at the end of the day if your doing other bands you could get what you thinks an amazing guitar tone and the band hate the direction you've gone in you have to re-work it. This is in respect to your new works of course, since the band your doing dig's it! :)

But there's obv the personal level where you want to achieve your best tones yet, that will be a never-ending quest for most of us :lol:
 
oh man, i have the same problem! it's so frustrating!

and everytime i am asking myself; how can lasse do this with a single mic and no post processing...
 
Another thing...Make sure the amp sounds great in the room! I always dial in the amp and make sure it sounds great in the room before even thinking about putting a mic to the cab.
 
I get frustrated with my tones too, but if I walk away for a while and come back and listen they don't sound as bad as I thought. I thinks it's partly a case of being too critical of my own work and focusing too hard on the guitars.

As far as any tips, I've been starting to track guitars a little bit darker, mainly by trying to place the mic (SM57) just a bit further from the center of the speaker. That, for me, lets the guitars fit in the mix a little better and is a less fatiguing sound because they sound less brittle.

Keep at it.
 
wutzington said:
I found this tutorial/collection of posts helped me a lot:

SLIPPERMANS RECORDING DISTORTED GUITARS FROM HELL

Takes some time to read, but is well worth it!
Click to expand...

"IF YOU DON'T STOP PLAYING EXACTLY WHEN I SAY STOP... I'M GOING TO SHOOT AND SHOOT AND CONTINUE TO SHOOT YOU UNTIL I RUN OUT OF AMMUNITION..... THEN I'M GOING TO RESUME SHOOTING YOU AFTER 'ASS-BOY'(point at shivering assistant) GETS BACK FROM THE GUN SHOP WITH MY REPLACEMENT AMMO". Anything short of this type of explanation/arrangement will usually NOT provide the necessary results. This person is a guitar player. They have the intellectual capacity of freshly mown grass.
Click to expand...
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
BrettT said:
I've been working on getting good miced tones quite a bit lately. It seems that a lot of people here prefer to mic the bottom cab speakers due to them sounding more full, but I've had much better luck on the top speakers. I find that they sound more open/less stuffy, especially in the mids. The bass frequencies are more controlled as well. I just find the bottom speakers way too congested-souding, if that makes any sense.

This is with a Rivera K412T (slant) with V30's on casters.

Try the top speakers if you haven't yet.
Click to expand...

All down to personal preference of course, but a) elevating the cab and having it right at the edge of the surface it's on (in my case a coffee table) helps greatly when mic'ing the bottom speakers as it minimizes the reflections from the floor, and b) mic'ing the bottom speakers in a slant is essentially the same as mic'ing any of the speakers in a straight, I guess my point being that it's not like it's going to be inherently unusably bassy considering how many great tones people get from straight cabs

Also, +1 to coming back to a tone and discovering it's not so bad, and I'll also add the obvious fact that a lot of the unpleasant fizz gets masked in a full mix
 
MarcusGHedwig said:
All down to personal preference of course, but a) elevating the cab and having it right at the edge of the surface it's on (in my case a coffee table) helps greatly when mic'ing the bottom speakers as it minimizes the reflections from the floor, and b) mic'ing the bottom speakers in a slant is essentially the same as mic'ing any of the speakers in a straight, I guess my point being that it's not like it's going to be inherently unusably bassy considering how many great tones people get from straight cabs
Click to expand...

A) I'm aware that the unpleasantness of the bottom speakers is from floor reflections. I don't have anything to elevate my cab that high off the ground...that's why I go for the top.

B) Micing the bottom of a slant would essentially be the same as micing the bottom of a straight, but would not be the same as micing a top speaker in a straight. Again..floor reflections.

Also, keep in mind that I'm using a standard-sized cab, so there's the stuffy mids that come into play. These frequencies aren't as prevalent in the top speakers. Possibly due to the slant design and location of the speaker in the cab? Dunno. Just works best for my setup.
 
Well the band just got back to me about the tones i've been doin' today and they dig them for their music/mix! oh well! lol, i really need to sort out the initial sound though so i dont have to do as much post processing, or in the detail i usually do!
 
Thing's to check:

Different mic
Mic position - proximity effect ???
Different preamp
Non-amp Distortion in the signal chain (pushing preamp too hard)
Gain balance - amp too loud, preamp too quiet?
 
Heavy Jerk said:
just turn your cab on the side
Click to expand...

I could do that, but am pretty happy with the tone I'm getting by just micing the top left. Seems to be the best sounding speaker in the cab, anyways. Also, I don't find that the angle of the speaker due to the slant has any negative effect on the tone.
 
I always went for the top too. Tends to have the least amount of junk, and most focus on the mids where the tone is going to end up after post processing anyway.

As far as the dangerous thinking that 'fizz gets masked in a mix anyway'. That fizz in turn masks the things it clashes with, which are usually:

1) Vocals: This is you failing at your mix. Once your guitar tone covers the vox you might as try to kill yourself, fail again, then go work at McDonald's.
2) OHs: Not so essential, but it's nice to have perceptibly 'airy' cymbals, and that's not going to happen with the guitars up here.
3) Drum attacks: So you add more and more compression, more and more highs/high mids and your drums end up in sterile click-mania. This problem pervades modern metal mixes a lot.

So, poor guitars can in effect destroy an entire mix, and they do... frequently. It's why I spend so long EQing ones I'm unhappy with.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

lelahel
heavy strings gauge sounds duller
Replies
13
Views
1K
F.O.H.
RedDog
R
E
Mic/Setup for mid-heavy agressive guitar tones (early Iron Maiden, Accept - Breaker)
Replies
5
Views
1K
F.O.H.
mickrich
M
evolutions_end
Gtr head+cab- same room or split up?
Replies
14
Views
819
F.O.H.
Metaltastic
M
Lasse Lammert
no sm57+mesa tones...stop limiting yourselves
Replies
109
Views
12K
Backline
Djabthrash
D
mva801
How much do you move/ reposition mics to refine your sound?
Replies
5
Views
847
F.O.H.
mva801
M
Top Bottom
Back