Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Used to use Sonnox, but now moved onto eQuality because the bands are more flexible. I've thought about using it in Linear Phase mode since I do so much EQ, but it literally annihilates the CPU when you stack them.
Guitar tones.. give up?
- Thread starter MetalJonesy
- Start date
righty, finally got round to uploading some clips.
6505>HB 2x12 (only running one v30 speaker)>SM57 (ala sneap ish)>Art Pro MPAII
Settings Red ch:
Lead Gain 4
Low 6
Mid 4
High 4
Post Gain 2
Res just under 7
Pres 7
TS9:
Drive 9 oclock
tone just under 12 oclock
Level 12 o clock
The chain for the processed guitar is SSLEQ boosting the top and mids at around 1.5, followed by the PT EQ4 doing the HP and LP filters at 75 hz and 12khz, this is then followed by some more eq taking out about 3 or 4 annoying junk frequencies. Then the usual multiband comp and limiter.
Processed guitar 2 is very basic; just one eq, then into the multiband and limiter, all the eq is doing on processed 2 is removing a notch at 1k and one just over 4k, with a slight roll off at around 14k on the top end
Raw Guitar:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/369408/Apostate/GTRS RAW.mp3
Processed Guitar:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/369408/Apostate/GTRS PROCESSED.mp3
Processed Guitar 2:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/369408/Apostate/GTRS PROCESSED 2.mp3
Guitars processed in mix:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/369408/Apostate/GTRS MIX.mp3
Processed Guitar 2 in mix:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/369408/Apostate/GTRS MIX 2.mp3
6505>HB 2x12 (only running one v30 speaker)>SM57 (ala sneap ish)>Art Pro MPAII
Settings Red ch:
Lead Gain 4
Low 6
Mid 4
High 4
Post Gain 2
Res just under 7
Pres 7
TS9:
Drive 9 oclock
tone just under 12 oclock
Level 12 o clock
The chain for the processed guitar is SSLEQ boosting the top and mids at around 1.5, followed by the PT EQ4 doing the HP and LP filters at 75 hz and 12khz, this is then followed by some more eq taking out about 3 or 4 annoying junk frequencies. Then the usual multiband comp and limiter.
Processed guitar 2 is very basic; just one eq, then into the multiband and limiter, all the eq is doing on processed 2 is removing a notch at 1k and one just over 4k, with a slight roll off at around 14k on the top end
Raw Guitar:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/369408/Apostate/GTRS RAW.mp3
Processed Guitar:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/369408/Apostate/GTRS PROCESSED.mp3
Processed Guitar 2:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/369408/Apostate/GTRS PROCESSED 2.mp3
Guitars processed in mix:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/369408/Apostate/GTRS MIX.mp3
Processed Guitar 2 in mix:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/369408/Apostate/GTRS MIX 2.mp3
Omega_Void
Your Eventual Destroyer
Not quite. In a 4x12 there's two pairs of series-connected speakers in parallel, thus four 8-ohm speakers gives an 8-ohm cabinet.
The sound of two identical speakers will be different if they are connected in series, because:
One speaker sees the impedance of the other speaker downstream (average 8 ohms) the amp impedance upstream (maybe 4 ohms with a guitar amp, give or take a couple of ohms or so, depending
)But the other speaker sees ground downstream (near-zero impedance) and the amp plus the other speaker upstream (12 ohms).
Damping is different then, plus the ground-side speaker gets back EMF from the other running through it in both directions, but the amp-side speaker gets back-EMF from the ground-side speaker only when back-current is flowing upstream.
If you swap the signal & ground connections the muddy sound will shift from one speaker to the other, 'cos it's much more a function of the electrical connections than acoustics. I know 'cos I've done it.
FWIW, I often like to mic both and mix the two.
MarcusGHedwig
Member
Well what I meant was the bottom speakers in a slant 4x12 are essentially gonna sound the same as any of the speakers in a straight 4x12, but that's interesting info dude! (I always know when you post it's gonna be something incredibly technical that makes my brain hurt 
)
)
darthjujuu
Member
MarcusGHedwig
Member
cheers dude, when i listen with fresh ears after a day then they aren't as bad as i thought tbh! but i'm still annoyed! lol
it's something i rlly try for whereas others can get it straight off!
Omega_Void
Your Eventual Destroyer
I guess it got a bit lost in the verbiage, but what I was trying to say was in any 4x12 two of the speakers will sound muddier than the other two, slant or straight, 'cos of how they're wired.
The only exception is if all the speakers are in parallel. Maybe someone makes 4-ohm cabs with four 16-ohm speakers, but I've never come across one.
(I always know when you post it's gonna be something incredibly technical that makes my brain hurt
Well, my brain hurts, I don't see why yours shouldn't too.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Do you know how most manufacturers would wire up their 4x12 boxes, and which of the 4 would commonly be the 'muddier' speakers you refer to?
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Can hear those annoying Harley Benton mids. Really pushed in a certain region, to the point where it's hard to get the tone to breathe.
Was really cool doing a side by side with the Mesa OS. Putting the OS on instantly cleaned up the tone in the room.
This is one of my old raw reamps with the 6260 into the HB 2x12: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/285689/Reamping/Sly-3.mp3
I totally understand where the issues are coming from. The cab comes with a lot of inherent junk, that means seating it without a degree of post processing is almost impossible.
Harry Hughes
âââ¬â¬
- Apr 25, 2009
- 4,353
- 0
- 36
Yeah, as you know, I've got that 2x12 now
It's not a bad cab at all, but it can sound a bit stuffy and boxy, but with a bit of post work it can sound good.
I've got the 333XL though, which seems to be smoother sounding amp, so less fizzy shit to deal with.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
For the price, it's a great cab. But when you skimp, you are usually wading in compromise territory. With the right mic positioning you can minimize fizz, but you're still dealing with some odd mids from that one.
FWIW most Mesa Oversize reamps I get from others have way more fizz than any of my HB recordings here ever had.
FWIW most Mesa Oversize reamps I get from others have way more fizz than any of my HB recordings here ever had.
The HB cab has some of the same annoying mid freqs as my v30 loaded Marshall 1960A actually, would be very very interesting to do a side by side comparison with my two cabs alongside a mesa OS! I'm actually preferring the HB one at the moment for recording!
honestly if i were you, i would maybe turn down the mids on the amp a hair. i know that on my 6505+, anything over 3 sounds way too honky to me
i would also maybe suggest turning up the presence a bit...especially in listening to raw and processed tones
all in all though, there's nothing about the tones you posted that makes me think "oh wow, this really sucks" or anything
i would also maybe suggest turning up the presence a bit...especially in listening to raw and processed tones
all in all though, there's nothing about the tones you posted that makes me think "oh wow, this really sucks" or anything
Omega_Void
Your Eventual Destroyer
I couldn't predict the physical placement of which speakers would go muddier without opening up cabinets. There's no standard that every manufacturer uses the same physical arrangement even if the wiring schematic is the same.
The observation came from me building a cab with two 8-ohm speakers, I found in parallel both speakers sounded the same, but in series they sounded different to each other, and which one was muddier changed when I swapped over the terminal connections, indicating that the difference was not in the physical properties of the speakers (I'd measured and matched them anyway) but in the electrical connections.
Well, fuck me in the ear for being a twat, but a little Googling turned up that Marshall 4x12 cabs are selectable 16 or 4 ohm mono or 8 ohm stereo.
That's done with 16-ohm speakers. If someone has such a cab and an amp with selectable output impedance you can check the effect. (If you lay the cab on its back for this it would rule out questions of floor reflections.)
Switched to 4-ohm all the speakers should sound the same (except for normal differences in manufacturing) 'cos they're all in parallel so they all see the same impedances at both terminals.
Switched to 16-ohm they'll be arranged as two series-pairs in parallel, so one speaker in each pair will be less well-damped and get muddier as a result.
The Mesa Rectifier and Stiletto 4x12 cabs OTOH are 8 ohm mono which is got by having two parallel 16-ohm paths, which are made by chaining two 8-ohm speakers in series. Operated like this two of the speakers will have worse damping than the other two, and get muddier.
In stereo they're 4 ohms, which is two 8-ohm speakers in parallel. So all the speakers should sound the same in stereo mode.
dude i actually have that cab and did a comparison between 8 ohm and 16 ohm operation (as i wanted to use less speakers to reduce noise to neighbours for recording! didnt move the mic on the same speaker and there was no difference in tone!
but i havent ever done it in the test you said!! lol
but i havent ever done it in the test you said!! lol
Ola Englund
Only gay in the village
+1 this is the shittiest process ever. If your room sounds ass, your recordings will sound ass. When I moved to my new apartment it was a lot easier dialing in a good sound.
Other things of importance:
1. Your microphone. Do you own several SM57s? Test them all. I own 3 of them and one of them really stands out from the rest. I think it's from the early 90's and it's been through a lot. BUT it sounds just a bit better than the other two.
2. Difference between speakers. Try micing up all 4 speakers in the cab. As with the microphones, one speaker can sound better or worse than the other so this is crucial. I always mic the right speaker of my Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12. Also these speakers are NOT broken in.
3. Fuck the settings, If you need to, MAX out the presence and treble. Don't be afraid to max stuff out. Still lack treble? Push the microphone closer to the center, add a eq with the high end maxed out. Don't be afraid to try crazy shit out. On my EVH5150iii clips I play with treble and presence at almost max. Sometimes maxing out the presence and treble and moving the microphone off-center will sound better than a microphone centered and highs rolled off.
Other things of importance:
1. Your microphone. Do you own several SM57s? Test them all. I own 3 of them and one of them really stands out from the rest. I think it's from the early 90's and it's been through a lot. BUT it sounds just a bit better than the other two.
2. Difference between speakers. Try micing up all 4 speakers in the cab. As with the microphones, one speaker can sound better or worse than the other so this is crucial. I always mic the right speaker of my Mesa Boogie Roadster 2x12. Also these speakers are NOT broken in.
3. Fuck the settings, If you need to, MAX out the presence and treble. Don't be afraid to max stuff out. Still lack treble? Push the microphone closer to the center, add a eq with the high end maxed out. Don't be afraid to try crazy shit out. On my EVH5150iii clips I play with treble and presence at almost max. Sometimes maxing out the presence and treble and moving the microphone off-center will sound better than a microphone centered and highs rolled off.
