guitarists?

[Calamitas1786]

People also have to realize their guitars are just as responsible for tone as much as an amp is. It can all depend on if you have active pickups or passive ones. It can even depend whether or not your tone knob is clockwise or counterclockwise. It's the little things that make your tone YOUR tone.

 

[eaeolian]

MIf you like the Marshall tone, have one (Preferably an 800) modded to break up at a lower volume and output more gain. IMHO it's the best sound in metal, think No More Tears, Master of Puppets, Peace Sells... Check out the Death Live in LA DVD. Just an awesome sound and the ONLY way you're gonna get an attack like sneap did on Dead Heart or The Gathering.

Uh, except for the fact that Dead Heart and The Gathering are both Rectos...

 

[eaeolian]

The dsl 2000... I think I heard somewhere there was diode clipping going on in the pre-amp stage.. That's fucked up, but like I said the kids want a different sound these days.

There's nothing good about these amps, IMO. I've heard some decent tones from them, but never any spectacular ones...

 

[Warden_D]

Uh, except for the fact that Dead Heart and The Gathering are both Rectos...

Ok, ok, checking the old library...

Yeah I see what you mean The Gathering is surprisingly very recto. I guess my memory failed me on that one.

The Nevermore tone has some MB in it for sure but I hear a lot of marshall. Especially in the attack. The breakup sounds like a bunch of different amps at once. A quick check on the sneap board...

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=262408

Sneap's 800, XXX, 5150, Recto, Krank on the new album. Probably a good indicator he used a bunch on Dead too...

Mesa Boogie offers great distortion but you pay a premium for it and it takes a good engineer to track it right. You can get that much gain out of a marshall, you just have to alter it a bit. Those old Morbid Angel recordings for instance. Why would you ever need more distortion than that? I mean you can hardly discern the picking at times...

There's nothing good about these amps, IMO. I've heard some decent tones from them, but never any spectacular ones...

WTF is marshall doing? Mode four? Ugh. Tone is a tough discussion. Most people are content with their amp modelling and multifx solid state stuff. I think it sounds horrendous but I've probably just spent too much time around tube amp nuts. What are some recordings where that came out good on? Satriani? Yeah but he's still running everything through a power tube section and that digital edge is part of his sound. The new Megadeth? Sounds ok, once again he's going into a marshall power tube section. Pantera? Umm, not really.

Old Metallica/Megadeth/Everyone in the late 80's - Jcm800
Carcass/The Haunted - 5150
Metallica's Black Album/Dream Theater - Mesa Boogie
Opeth Ghost Reveries - Laney
Opeth Still Life - Engl
New Killswitch Engage - Framus

I dunno, I think these are pretty good indicators... I lean towards the Engl/Laney/Marshall/Orange/Ampeg side but that's just my taste.

D.

 

[deathstrike from hell]

go solidstate.


and get yourself a nice ns2, some moog effects, a gt8 or rp400 and let it rip \m/

 

[eaeolian]

The Nevermore tone has some MB in it for sure but I hear a lot of marshall. Especially in the attack. The breakup sounds like a bunch of different amps at once. A quick check on the sneap board...

According to Andy, DHIaDW is a two channel Recto with a boost in front of it. I don't recall him saying anything about his Marshall at all on that one.

Mesa Boogie offers great distortion but you pay a premium for it and it takes a good engineer to track it right. You can get that much gain out of a marshall, you just have to alter it a bit. Those old Morbid Angel recordings for instance. Why would you ever need more distortion than that? I mean you can hardly discern the picking at times...

To me, that's the difference between amps - the Mesas always remain articulate (you can hear everything), while Marshalls "mush out".

I dunno, I think these are pretty good indicators... I lean towards the Engl/Laney/Marshall/Orange/Ampeg side but that's just my taste.

So you generally like EL34s instead of 6L6s? I'm the opposite - I far prefer 6L6s...

 

[Mike]

im a guitar noob.... but i still think marshalls suck, and everything else, i cant affoard.

 

[Duckhat]

People also have to realize their guitars are just as responsible for tone as much as an amp is. It can all depend on if you have active pickups or passive ones. It can even depend whether or not your tone knob is clockwise or counterclockwise. It's the little things that make your tone YOUR tone.

I'm glad you brought that up because it's something I've been discovering recently and I think people tend to overlook on tone. If you have SD JBs and you're not comparing with your other guitar with active EMGs, you're doing yourself a serious disservice. Once I got from duncan designed (ha, yeah), to real life SDs I was convinced that it couldn't get better. Then I got EMG 707s and at a low volume I just thought they made too much feedback and were too thin. But after playing with the 5150 II up, the 707 kicks the JB's ass in terms of sheer tightness and clarity. Things like that tend to be the most noticable when you're playing at a loud volume in a very small environment.

And another note about the 5150 II, don't turn the gain up because YOU DON'T NEED IT. Put the gain on 4 and let the tubes do the rest of the work! If you decide to be captain hardcore and put the gain on 10, you're just robbing yourself of what could've been! I saw some shitty-ass hardcore band play once that was getting ridiculous feedback to the point of them stopping to look at the guy's amp and see what was wrong. Well after going to such extremes as borrowing another band's cables (and these extremes failing), I never, ever saw the gain knob leave 10.

 

[eaeolian]

I'm glad you brought that up because it's something I've been discovering recently and I think people tend to overlook on tone. If you have SD JBs and you're not comparing with your other guitar with active EMGs, you're doing yourself a serious disservice. Once I got from duncan designed (ha, yeah), to real life SDs I was convinced that it couldn't get better. Then I got EMG 707s and at a low volume I just thought they made too much feedback and were too thin. But after playing with the 5150 II up, the 707 kicks the JB's ass in terms of sheer tightness and clarity. Things like that tend to be the most noticable when you're playing at a loud volume in a very small environment.

Then again, I'm the exact opposite - I much prefer the JB (or JB7, in my case) to the 707. The guitar makes a huge difference. However, I find a good amp can overcome a mediocre guitar (tonally speaking), whereas a mediocre amp still sounds mediocre even with a great guitar.

And another note about the 5150 II, don't turn the gain up because YOU DON'T NEED IT. Put the gain on 4 and let the tubes do the rest of the work! If you decide to be captain hardcore and put the gain on 10, you're just robbing yourself of what could've been! I saw some shitty-ass hardcore band play once that was getting ridiculous feedback to the point of them stopping to look at the guy's amp and see what was wrong. Well after going to such extremes as borrowing another band's cables (and these extremes failing), I never, ever saw the gain knob leave 10.

The only way you should ever need to get a 5150's gain above halfway is if your pickups have the output of, say, waving a magnet near a spool of copper wire. Seriously, they have almost TOO much gain...

 

[Mike]

i went from duncan designed pickups to EMG 81/85 combo and it made a world of difference to me, the only thing i dont like about the EMGs is it says you gotta keep them pretty close to the strings so I hit them alot with my pick because im used to having much more room from when i had the DDs, that and my guitar goes HHS so its pretty jammed in there.

 

[eaeolian]

^ That's a huge upgrade. I haven't heard a set of Duncan Designed PUs yet that didn't sound like smeared ass...

 

[Mike]

dude, when i first plugged in with the new pickups, it was like i could hear every note perfectly clear, the DDs sounded like you stuck a piece of wood between the strings and the pickups

even the H4's i stuck in my MH-100 sounded better than them

 

[Calamitas1786]

i went from duncan designed pickups to EMG 81/85 combo and it made a world of difference to me, the only thing i dont like about the EMGs is it says you gotta keep them pretty close to the strings so I hit them alot with my pick because im used to having much more room from when i had the DDs, that and my guitar goes HHS so its pretty jammed in there.

Is that a custom shop? I'm thinking about investing in a custom Horizon

 

[Calamitas1786]

Oh wait, it's a Stephen Carpenter, my bad

 

[Warden_D]

According to Andy, DHIaDW is a two channel Recto with a boost in front of it. I don't recall him saying anything about his Marshall at all on that one.

If that's the case then a fantastic mix for sure... But I would find it a bit hard to believe a tweaker like him could resist reamping with all the heads he has laying around...

So you generally like EL34s instead of 6L6s? I'm the opposite - I far prefer 6L6s...

For the most part, yeah. But that's just for playing my own stuff. I hadn't been playing much metal recently so I threw some 6L6s in my vh100r, rebiased it, and let my buddy play with it for awhile. Sounds awesome I think. When I get my shit together I'll probably just go get a marshall power section (9005 or 50/50) and try to match it with a good pre. A good tip for any amp seekers out there - make sure your amp is properly biased for the tubes you are using. Some amps have "bias" switches on them but they're really not that accurate.

To me, that's the difference between amps - the Mesas always remain articulate (you can hear everything), while Marshalls "mush out".

go solidstate.

im a guitar noob.... but i still think marshalls suck

Well now you guys are just hurting my feelings.

Pretty much any reputable tube amp that is properly set up will sound awesome in the hands of a good recording engineer. I'm not exactly sure how an amp with a metal legacy like the 800 has become somewhat maligned here. It's responsible for so many classic recordings!

How about an ENGL 530 pre amp with a mesa 50/50? You could probably make that happen for under a grand. Or a Marshall 9005? Or A V-twin? Or a GP1000? Or drop the money on a 2:90 and melt your face off...

D.

 

[Duckhat]

Then again, I'm the exact opposite - I much prefer the JB (or JB7, in my case) to the 707. The guitar makes a huge difference. However, I find a good amp can overcome a mediocre guitar (tonally speaking), whereas a mediocre amp still sounds mediocre even with a great guitar.



The only way you should ever need to get a 5150's gain above halfway is if your pickups have the output of, say, waving a magnet near a spool of copper wire. Seriously, they have almost TOO much gain...

Gain past five is definitely just to cover any bad technique.



And whoever said go solidstate (even though I'm pretty sure they were joking), let's not listen to them.

 

[Dead Winter]

I prefer a lower gain anyway. Gain ruins your tone, imo.

 

[eaeolian]

Pretty much any reputable tube amp that is properly set up will sound awesome in the hands of a good recording engineer. I'm not exactly sure how an amp with a metal legacy like the 800 has become somewhat maligned here. It's responsible for so many classic recordings!

There's a certain tone that only a JCM 800 with an overdrive in front of it (or a correctly modded one) will give you, and that tone is great for what it is. I know, I had one - unfortunately, I had a "bad" one that liked to eat power transformers, caps, and everything else, including tubes and my patience. However, that tone is fabulous if that's what you're looking for - it's pretty much an industry standard at this point.

I *don't* like Marshalls for the sort of tone I'm going for now - in fact, I don't like EL34s at all for what I'm going for. That doesn't mean it doesn't sound good - "mushy" bottom end is not bad (in a lot of cases it's very useful), it's just not what I'm after. I prefer the tone of 6L6s, especially when using a 7 string.

However, I'd advise anyone to stay away from the post 800 series Marshalls - I've had nothing but bad tonal experiences with them.

 

[The Reverend Joint Smoker]

Tri Axis--->Eventide--->BBE---->Strategy 500 --- 2 or 4 4x12's with greenbacks. Sounds that make me want to get my dick out come out of this rig. And I've had just about everything else out there. One thing I keep around is my ancient ADA preamp into an old old JCM 800, it has one sound, and it does that sound very well, the old chainsaw with a rubber band wrapped around the throttle wide open Forbidden Evil tone. A sound that is dear to my heart

 

[Mike]

Calamitas1786: someday I will own a custom ESP (real ESP) Horizon NT-II. Ahhh that would rule.

Warden D: The only Marshall I sorta liked was the Mode Four, but for the price, I'd rather pick up a dual or tripple recto