Gun laws in the great state of NY
- Thread starter Loren Littlejohn
- Start date
You're right, someone breaking into a house hears a shotgun being readied and they just stick around.
Wow...
oroinvictus
dangert billy
Have you stood a violent intruder down in your home by racking a pump at them before? If anyone here has a story about facing down an intruder in their home and forcing them to leave only by racking the action of a firearm, I'd love to hear it. A personal story, not a 'study' or 'research'. Most firearm actions being readied have a very similar sound, especially from a distance, and I'm pretty sure "Stop, or I'll shoot" is a more realistic, effective and less 'hollywood' method of force application.
i assume you wont be pedantic enough to insist that it literally be the sound of a shotgun being racked... but would settle for anything in which it was made clear to an intruder that an armed homeowner was prepared to defend themselves...
i repelled an intruder last year who was climbing over my fence, by merely telling him that i had a .357, ready to use. he left quickly, actually apologizing as he went. Same guy was arrested two days later for breaking into a home a few miles from mine. He was found to be armed with a small caliber pistol, and was held until the police arrived by the shotgun wielding home-owner.
And who would even challenge the fact that guns dissuade intruders? I hope you were just playing "devil's advocate", and not in any way serious.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." Thomas Paine
oroinvictus
dangert billy
I never challenged the point that guns don't dissuade intruders. I was trying to make a point on the common belief that racking the pump of a shotgun is enough to scare off an intruder (as I quoted that near-exact statement from someone in the thread), in that it's not exactly realistic.
is it really?? i don't think it is, and i don't think you have any basis at all for making such a claim. There is functionally zero difference between verbalizing that you have a gun vs. cycling the action of the gun to make the necessary impression. If anything, logic dictates that the latter would indeed be the more effective approach... an unsubstantiated claim vs. proof; proof wins every time.
And you live in a very low (comperative to many many other states) crime state.... i wonder why that is? oh yeah... Open and Concealed carry allowed, Bº)
Fortunately I have not, and hopefully never will have to. But I have the advantage of common sense, so much that I don't need personal experience to know that intruders don't want to get shot. You should try some out once in a while. Break into my house, hear my shotgun get racked, and see if I even need to say "stop, or i'll shoot" before you're already bolting out. There is nothing "Hollywood" about the fear of the business end of a shotgun.
I also love that you mock factual evidence as if it's meaningless. I'll be sure to have that same arrogant and ignorant approach to any "studies" or "research" you can find to support something you talk about, because ignoring truths to help your personal opinion makes total sense.
oroinvictus
dangert billy
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you own a firearm for self defense, you should be trained and ready to use it, not rack the action to try and intimidate an intruder, or multiple intruders, into leaving. I'm not saying that's what you did, of course - the (common) belief that racking the action of a firearm will always scare off a violent intruder just doesn't hold any water to me. On another note, the local eugene police have really been cracking down on open carriers around and in the city lately, stopping and temporarily detaining people, asking for & taking ID's, inspecting weapons, etc...
Please, show me some empirical evidence to support your own opinion before calling me out. Where are these 'truths' you're talking about?
Are you serious right now?
The fact you are even asking for that confirms what I just said. I never said any time an intruder is encountered, simply cock your gun, that'll do it. But I know you wouldn't have to say something after that more often than not. Do I really need to find empirical evidence to show that people don't want to get shot? Or that they know when they hear a gun being cocked that what comes next usually isn't unicorns and balloons if they are breaking in somewhere? Better yet, do your own study. Find a bunch of criminals, ask them if they would need someone to tell them they have a gun after hearing it being cocked, see what they would say. In case you haven't noticed, all of my opinions in this thread have been backed up by facts. Nobody seems to want to address those though, as I already pointed out. In fact, look up a few posts of mine from earlier in this thread, where I explained that studies have shown over 1/3 of criminals asked have said they abandoned the situation instead of completed their crime because they knew or believed their victim had a weapon. I'm pretty damn sure more than one of those were because they heard the gun and that's all it took. There's even a video I posted from a 20/20 special that has the same thing being talked about. The fact that you are even still arguing this is rather obnoxious, especially since I already gave evidence to support my opinion earlier in the thread regarding this. What a surprise you ignored that. Un-fucking-believable.
Once again, common sense, try it on for size, you might like it.
oroinvictus
dangert billy
Are YOU serious? If a thug who's twice your size is charging you with a knife or, worse, a firearm in your home, do you think he'll care much about what sound your gun makes at that point? Maybe multiple assailants? What if it's in an alley, or by your car on a dark street? It's all what-ifs because this is hypothetical. Don't call me out for disregarding "factual evidence" and "truths"(what you THINK might happen in a home defense situation and how you THINK people may feel) if you don't wanna back up your opinions with more than "facts" that still seem to be your opinions.
I actually edited my post, check it out:
As I said there, I've already shown evidence to support my opinion. Where's yours?
As I said there, I've already shown evidence to support my opinion. Where's yours?
oroinvictus
dangert billy
"the (common) belief that racking the action of a firearm will always scare off a violent intruder just doesn't hold any water to me." - this was ultimately what I was trying to, and did say. Exactly what kind of evidence should I use to support that, other than what I've already said?
"studies have shown over 1/3 of criminals asked have said they abandoned the situation instead of completed their crime because they knew or believed their victim had a gun. I'm pretty damn sure more than one of those were because they heard the gun and that's all it took."
Was hearing the gun an actual part of the study? Or are you just 'pretty damn sure' it was? Because otherwise it's not super relevant to what I said. Points for empirical evidence at any rate. I mean if it was I'll totally retract my statement. Man, I really derailed this thread. Sorry everybody.
I never said, nor believe, that merely cocking the weapon is enough in every situation, I don't think anyone literally thinks that. I don't think the person you originally replied to literally thought that either. Anyone that is serious and responsible when it comes to firearms would not believe that. If they did, I would have to call bullshit on them being serious and responsible when it comes to firearms.
But, for the sake of responding specifically to your last post, I'll just reiterate this from James' post earlier in the thread:
I dunno what else I can say about this. Nor do I care anymore at this point.
Back on topic for the fucking love of fuck.
But, for the sake of responding specifically to your last post, I'll just reiterate this from James' post earlier in the thread:
James Murphy said:
I dunno what else I can say about this. Nor do I care anymore at this point.
Back on topic for the fucking love of fuck.
SocialNumb
Damn Christians!
i'm pretty sure that if someone broke into the downstairs of my home and heard me racking a shotgun upstairs, he'd never bother coming up the steps. if he did, he'd probably still turn around pretty quick after starting up my creaky old steps.
mva801
Member
- Nov 18, 2009
- 1,870
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Yeah. Of all the things to argue over in this thread, an off-hand comment about pumping a shotgun scaring a criminal.... Dude, obviously that doesn't have any bearing on the meat of the thread. You're just being argumentative about a frivolous statement for the sake of arguing...
Can we get back to talking about how taking guns out of the hands of responsible, law-abiding citizens seemingly in no way reduces the likelyhood of criminals using them?
The problem with that is other than everyone agreeing, there's nothing else to say because there's no evidence to support an opposite stance on that matter. It doesn't reduce crime. When criminals know their area is getting stricter on gun laws that translates to: more victims with less risk of them defending themselves.
I mean, seriously, if you look up some of these gun regulations, and you need to know something about guns when you do, it's painfully obvious the people making and passing them are grossly unqualified to speak on the technical, or even general in a lot of cases, aspects of firearms and should not be the ones making these decisions. Yet, time and time again, they pass. They fail to reduce crime rates. They fail to make a dent in the illegal arms trade in the U.S. They fail to do anything other than further limit law-abiding citizens and help out criminals.
I totally get the other side of the coin on this. There's many reasons anti-gun advocates want to get rid of guns, of course, but the main point is ultimately that they don't want to fear some criminal using one to harm them or their loved ones. Succinctly, fear. Totally understandable. But their efforts are aimed in the wrong direction. Instead of trying to get rid of legal guns, which honestly I don't think will ever happen in my lifetime or even the next 150 years - if ever, they should be focused on the illegal ones. The illegal ones make up the overwhelming majority of what criminals are using to commit their crimes. There is already a "war on illegal firearms," but sadly as it is right now it's as much of a joke as the "war on drugs" is. Just look at how well operation Fast & Furious has worked out for the ATF so far.
Anyway, imagine if the anti-gun movement shifted their efforts 100% and just became the anti-illegal-gun movement. They would be doing something that actually would help them achieve, or at least make progress on, their goal of trying to get guns out of criminal hands. Which is what seemingly is the main point of what they are trying to do. Pro-gun advocates don't like illegal arms either. I suspect most of them would support that movement happily.
And hey, already I can think of a couple of benefits that could come from that change. For one, they aren't fighting to shit all over the 2nd amendment. That's the main issue pro-gun people have with the whole current deal. Yeah, make age and background check restrictions, registration and licensing requirements. But stop trying to fuck with the BoR.
Pro-gun people don't want to keep their gun(s) so they can be vigilantes, or heroes, or any of that nonsense. They want them because they know criminals have guns. Because they know the police are not the first line of defense when you need to protect you or your loved one's life or your property. Because shit can hit the fan any time to any one and they'd rather be prepared than be helpless. Because some of them want to hunt or participate in competitive shooting or just be a damn collector. It's actually not important why they want to keep them. What's important is that they explicitly have the right to have them as stated in the BoR. Period. Trump card. There should be no argument against that.
Axonic Rot
Member
- Jan 25, 2010
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