Hardcore is saving metal.

[Demilich]

IM very drunk. Which i sdhtink is the best statea of midn to deabte stuf fof course.




i fahitnk somone said it already asbut id aon't think masetal needs saving...wahst the fuck is so bad about metal...dyaradghhhh, i don't dwant ti to end us oem gay fagg dtrend like every other msuci genre. ... its the ohtnly subculture that has sandy semblance of waht it was aoriginaly....uhh......yeasy and ahrdcores gay...even though i smade abpost abou thow i like blood for blood...damnmit....uhhhhhhhhh......thrash till death and stuff?

I'll have what he's having!

 

[NAD]

Besides, isn't it our duty to be sifting through the archives of metal as opposed to seeing what the latest release is? Who gives a shit whether it's new or not?

Of course! Just as much as it is our (or at least my) duty to seek out what's new and interesting. What is new and interesting as of late? All this stuff that was birthed from the dreaded hardcore scene.

 

[Ayeka]

Could be. But how much of that opinion is based on your actual thoughts on FULL ALBUMS of hardcore music, not just samples, downloads, comps? And how much of that opinion is based on the trends of hardcore music?

My opinion is based on what I've heard in my mates' cars and assorted stuff that's been played to me, live shows and a Johnny Truant album that a mate copied for me I think I've heard enough to know that I don't like it, I mean how much more do I have to shift through before I eventually change my mind and make you happy?

It's like, I was down the pub a few weeks back and I was talking to this guy. He noticed how I was dressed (long hair, leather jacket, tight jeans) and asked me about my favourite bands (Maiden, Priest, 'OwaR etc of course). Then he goes, "So why don't you like new bands? Are you one of these old school rockers who refuses to listen to anything new?". I had to be quite honest and explain that I didn't like it because everything I'd heard from a year's worth of watching Kerrap TV (and other stations), all the magazine sampler CDs, most of the live shows I'd been to and pretty much everything my friends had played me over the last few years I thought was junk. I also fired off a list of new bands that I liked, he hadn't heard of any of them

It's all very good searching out new styles of music and the Next Big Thing or whatever, but doing it for the sake of it is just...well, pointless, really! I guess people like me know what we like, and as it stands right now the Metal scene is catering for my taste very nicely

 

[lizard]

yet was metal such a step up from hard rock? Was traditional rock such a step up from rock n roll? Was rock and roll so different from blues? In the end, everything is just a "slightly different version" of what was done before...

exactly. you could step into a grimy little roadhouse in louisiana and hear a bunch of black guys absolutely hammering some electric blues and you realize, as much as rascists hate to admit it, that black people invented rock and roll.

Ugh, if the group is just a shadow of their former selves, as evident by playing exclusively their old material, time to hang up the guitar man. Leave your legacy untarnished.

it's a perfect example of how staid metal has become that one of the huge hypes of the year is Priest returning. these guys are so stale that they don't even have imitators any more (except for Nudist Priest ha ha)

I know people that are primarily Metalheads usually crossover to other genres ...

no offense but this makes me laugh. I'm frequently insulted on UM (except on the Kayo Dot board, which is amazing eclectic) for espousing the virtues of things deemed un-metal. I wear the insults proudly, a badge of honour tarnished by nothing but my own mental accuity and good taste

Is -core saving metal? Definitely not by itself.

or is metal killing itself by boring repetition. The fact that metal radio is becoming an increasingly rare commodity is pure economic proof that the genre is not near as vibrant as many would like to believe.

I think some of you listen to way too much music daily... Nowadays, i just put something on in the car and really only listen to stuff that I enjoy and entertains me.

one of the things that always amuses me on this board is how someone can list 432 cds they purchased this week and all of them are stellar death metal. are some here easy to please, willing to accept just about anything? It is a very rare CD I can listen to start to finish, in fact when I'm listening to music, I usually cherry-pick tracks off a whole stack of CDs.

I can't ever imagine not wanting to find something new and refreshing.

"Now I'm humping your leg." - Nad, 11/2004

 

[lizard]

woah coffee do your stuff. "Reed"

 

[dill_the_devil]

I don't really think I'm a 'metal' fan or a 'hardcore' fan - I just listen to whatever pushes my buttons at the time. I totally agree with the oft-repeated statement that the lines have become utterly blurred between metal and 'core - and for goat's sake, like Nate said, since when were Meshuggah anything but technical thrash?

However, a lot of modern hardcore/metalcore is a shitload heavier and more extreme than anything modern metal bands have been putting out lately (cases in point - Backstabbers Inc., Founddeadhanging), a lot more compositionally interesting (Pelican, Isis, Mare, Cult Of Luna), a lot more technically demanding (Ion Dissonance, The Dillinger Escape Plan) and generally more interesting. What are metal fans busting a nut over right now? The return of Halford to Judas Priest. When the most exciting thing to happen in the world of metal is the return of an original singer to a past-their-prime 70s band and the release of an album (Angel Of Retribution) that attempts to reclaim former glories (namely, Painkiller) and fails (trust me, I've heard most of it), then perhaps metal might need a kick up the arse, if not exactly saving.

 

[JayKeeley]

What are metal fans busting a nut over right now? The return of Halford to Judas Priest. When the most exciting thing to happen in the world of metal is the return of an original singer to a past-their-prime 70s band and the release of an album (Angel Of Retribution) that attempts to reclaim former glories (namely, Painkiller) and fails (trust me, I've heard most of it), then perhaps metal might need a kick up the arse, if not exactly saving.

No, no, you've got this all wrong. The metal fans are just as devout as they were BEFORE Halford came back to Priest. "Angel of Retribution" has no bearing on the way things evolve.

Do you know why people are excited? It's because it brings the audiences back to the stadium shows and the bright lights. Throughout the 90's, metal was driven into little 'hole in the wall' venues, and now we're seeing a ressurgence in the way we haven't seen in over 10 years. The old fans are excited, and the new fans are getting a taste of something quite marvellous.

There are plenty of metal bands giving metal a kick up the arse without having to pollute their airwaves by leveraging other forms of music like jazz or hardcore. It's totally unnecessary and just confuses new fans of metal into thinking that this is the default. It's not.

Metal crowds are fun. They like to drink beer. Metal is about the live show. We're not all closet armchair fans with an inferiority complex, the internet is a forced venue. It's a 'nice to have'. Whether it be Wacken, ProgPower, or this 'born again' OzzFest thing, you never know what else is might be around the corner: Clash of the Titans? Monsters of Rock?

And if I can do my bit to get the likes of Orphaned Land, The Hidden Hand, Slough Feg, and Primordial in those same venues then we're giving the scene the chance it deserves. It means that we don't have to throw nuMetal, mallcore, or -core bands into support slots for headlining bands like Motorhead, Saxon, and Slayer.

Eventually the oldies will be gone forever, and I'm going to do my hardest in this lifetime to see that they're replaced by other metal bands. Yes, that is my mission statement.

 

[KILL TULLY]

Metal crowds are fun. They like to drink beer. Metal is about the live show. We're not all closet armchair fans with an inferiority complex, the internet is a forced venue. It's a 'nice to have'. Whether it be Wacken, ProgPower, or this 'born again' OzzFest thing, you never know what else is might be around the corner: Clash of the Titans? Monsters of Rock?

And if I can do my bit to get the likes of Orphaned Land, The Hidden Hand, Slough Feg, and Primordial in those same venues then we're giving the scene the chance it deserves. It means that we don't have to throw nuMetal, mallcore, or -core bands into support slots for headlining bands like Motorhead, Saxon, and Slayer.

Eventually the oldies will be gone forever, and I'm going to do my hardest in this lifetime to see that they're replaced by other metal bands. Yes, that is my mission statement.

this is 100bajillion%correct. ESPECIALLY the part about not everyone being armchair fans.

 

[dill_the_devil]

There are plenty of metal bands giving metal a kick up the arse without having to pollute their airwaves by leveraging other forms of music like jazz or hardcore.

Who are they, then? All I've been hearing recently are albums that sound like the classic 70s/80s cuts with better production values... and since when was incorporating other genres of music into your writing style 'pollution'? As we can see clearly with the current state of black metal, such thinking limits creativity to a point where everything sounds exactly the same!

 

[JayKeeley]

You're not looking in the right places. And I did bump the "greatest bands in existence" thread specifically for you my SAS adult diaper selling amigo.

OK I'll list these bands, and you can go check them out (in no order): Agalloch, Orphaned Land, Melechesh, Hammers of Misfortune, Moonsorrow, Primordial, and Reverrend Bizarre.

Not a single Darkthrone or Judas Priest clone among them.

Two good things so far: Metal Blade saw the light and signed Primordial, and ProgPower is playing host to Orphaned Land this summer in the USA. Ahh, the tides are changing....

 

[Nate The Great]

Metal Blade also signed PsyOpus. That was pretty cool. 2 good bands on Metal Blade now.

 

[dill_the_devil]

Moonsorrow are okay but bore me somewhat, Reverend Bizarre are awesome but not exactly ground-breaking, Melechesh are like Nile with faster drums and more erudite lyrics, still gotta check out the others...

 

[JayKeeley]

Moonsorrow are okay but bore me somewhat, Reverend Bizarre are awesome but not exactly ground-breaking, Melechesh are like Nile with faster drums and more erudite lyrics, still gotta check out the others...

Yeah, I'm really not too concerned with the whole "ground breaking" thing. In other words, I'm not going to deduct points from Reverrend Bizzare for not breaking new territory. They're just the best doom band in existence right now, and that works for me!

Melechesh have faster drums than Nile??? Maybe you refer to their debut, the only album of theirs I've yet to hear (I understand it is black metal), but their other two releases are at a brutal thrash tempo.

 

[dill_the_devil]

Hmmm... maybe I'm thinking of Absu, actually - Proscriptor drums for them too, doesn't he?

As for the ground breaking thing - totally with you, Reverend Bizarre are awesome doom (heard Yob yet?), but I thought the point of the discussion was that hardcore influences have sort of jump-started metal's engines again, where progression was rare and half-hearted up until recently... so, what modern metal bands are there that have done something new or advanced metal without hardcore or other musical influence? As in, done something new within metal without appropriating influence or impetus from outside metal?

 

[JayKeeley]

Hmmm... maybe I'm thinking of Absu, actually - Proscriptor drums for them too, doesn't he?

Yes. Same drummer, different band altogether.

I thought the point of the discussion was that hardcore influences have sort of jump-started metal's engines again, where progression was rare and half-hearted up until recently... so, what modern metal bands are there that have done something new or advanced metal without hardcore or other musical influence? As in, done something new within metal without appropriating influence or impetus from outside metal?

Like I said in my first post, true innovation within the confines of metal ended pretty much in 1990. Everything afterwards just pays tribute (admittedly with a few tweaks here or there), just as the fans also do.

If hardcore transforms 'pure metal' into a new sub-genre, then so be it, but it's only as relevant then as classical metal, or polka metal, or folk metal, etc. It's just another subgenre, certainly NOT saving metal but just adding a new flavour. If you happen to like this flavour then that's good for you.

The labels need to be held accountable somewhat. Shouldn't it absolutely piss you off (as a metal fan) that metal labels will dismiss phenomenal metal acts for hardcore brethren? Or that they'll pick more metal-core acts, or more melo-death acts over bands struggling to be heard?

As a metal community, metal fans need to demand change. See thread entitled "Heavy Metal" for more details: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185846

 

[Ayeka]

Who are they, then? All I've been hearing recently are albums that sound like the classic 70s/80s cuts with better production values... and since when was incorporating other genres of music into your writing style 'pollution'? As we can see clearly with the current state of black metal, such thinking limits creativity to a point where everything sounds exactly the same!

I've always found that one of the beauties of Heavy Metal is that it's flexible enough so that you can have a variety of sounds that are still unmistakebly Metal. You can list a dozen or so bands and each will be distinctly unique in whatever way and distinguishable just by listening to a few songs.

As far as my favourite new Metal bands go (I'm sure you know who they are?), they may not be reinventing the wheel but they do play Metal damn well and do so in their own particular style. Isn't this enough?

 

[dill_the_devil]

Jay - Very fair points. You're damned right about the labels, trend-hopping fuckers that they are...

 

[NAD]

The labels need to be held accountable somewhat. Shouldn't it absolutely piss you off (as a metal fan) that metal labels will dismiss phenomenal metal acts for hardcore brethren? Or that they'll pick more metal-core acts, or more melo-death acts over bands struggling to be heard?

None of this matters one iota. All that matters are quality bands, I don't care about genres. Metal is metal. I still don't know where all this divisional hatred between genres started, honestly I never saw ANY of it until I came to ultimatemetal.com, and for awhile it really confused me (now I'm just used to it, but it still confuses me a bit). I talk about groups like Today is the Day in the same sentence as Slayer and people start rioting! To me they are both metal, and I don't understand the notion of keeping the two wholly seperate from one another. Metal is metal, that's it.

 

[MajestikMøøse]

It's unfortunate that Today Is the Day is on metal-archives reject list. uptight bastards.

 

[JayKeeley]

None of this matters one iota. All that matters are quality bands, I don't care about genres. Metal is metal. I still don't know where all this divisional hatred between genres started, honestly I never saw ANY of it until I came to ultimatemetal.com, and for awhile it really confused me (now I'm just used to it, but it still confuses me a bit). I talk about groups like Today is the Day in the same sentence as Slayer and people start rioting! To me they are both metal, and I don't understand the notion of keeping the two wholly seperate from one another. Metal is metal, that's it.

Agreed, but that's not how the labels see it. They are (or at least should be) the backbone of getting the music out there to the fans.

For every metalcore act being signed by a metal label, a better band is lost and forgotten.