Haters Gonna Hate: The Official Djent Thread

[Rick Pierpont]

Not a huge fan of the genre due to the vocals, but I saw a video from Animals As Leaders a few months ago and was pretty amazed at the technical ability. The song actually started to come together after the first few minutes went by. I've listened to the disk a few times and it isn't too bad at all.

Our bass player is a HUGE fan and all I have heard about for the past few ears is Sikth, Meshuggah, Textures, and his latest favorite, Periphery (he's NUTS about these guys)!!

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I've heard that exact combo be VERY organic sounding.

I haven't.

Which people are those, exactly? Most of the complaints I see in this thread are about lack of writing hooks and vocals, both of which are legitimate criticisms of the genre.

I saw a few comments about how robotic it sounded which I didn't get. I don't care, I just thought it was a little weird. I mean whatever, I wasn't addressing you either with my post.

Seems to me you need to unchip your shoulder. There's been plenty of positive in this thread, and you just seem to want to fight about it.

Wait what? Where do you see me fighting? This is a discussion, and if you read the thread you'd see I said this:

I'm loving this thread and how open-minded even the people who don't like this stuff are to it.

But that doesn't mean I can't disagree with some opinions, or question them. I don't get how you interpret that as fighting though. How about YOU unchip YOUR shoulder plzkthx?

 

[eaeolian]

I haven't.

Perhaps I have different experiences than you, then, since I know a large number of AxeFx owners, and a lot of Superior (and other drum sample set) users that do really nice programming.

Besides, the drums were actually *played* on the Periphery disc - to use one of your examples - anyway, even if it was VDrums that were replaced with Misha's sample sets.

Wait what? Where do you see me fighting? This is a discussion, and if you read the thread you'd see I said this:

Yes, and I also read where you said this:

So all the people whining in this thread about how fake Periphery or Tesseract sounds but listen to some power metal band that sounds even WORSE because it was recorded as a "lie" with the intent to sound real but ends up sounding fake as hell... I don't get it.

Sounds overly defensive - and, in fact, somewhat insulting due to your choice of words - accusing people of "whining" about something when you don't agree with them is pretty much a universal insult. I just find it amusing that you can't address a legitimate criticism of the bands without resorting to being insulting.

Regardless, there's plenty of cool stuff happening in this (and related) genres.

 

[Kaosaur]

Actually, to be fair, Misha said he programmed them first, then the drummer learned them...added his own flair to it and then the recording of the MIDI data from that was run through Superior. Misha programs the drums on absolutely everything he records (if you want to work with him...) and whether the drummer learns it and it's recorded from that is up to them.

Also, a lot of stuff is Axe-fx & Superior and doesn't sound that way but I think the point is a lot of Djent bands use the same tools with the same presets and it sounds the same. It isn't something entirely universal to the scene but definitely a majority of it has that one sound. I'm not exactly thrilled about that but I also don't listen to all of those bands...just the exceptional ones.

I also am a Superior 2.0 user (and I use e-drums as well as program) and have used an axefx (but won't own one till late summer) and they're both capable of a lot more, sure... but the standard/generic(?) djent sound is an inorganic sound and it's best achieved (so far) with those tools...

 

[Kaosaur]

Eric Kalsbeek is an awesome vocalist, he was one of the main strengths of the band.

He's good, no doubt, by comparison to a lot of what's out there. I just feel like a phenomenal (he wasn't that) singer was the only thing holding them back from being the best band of the decade for me.

Metal, overall, has some pretty bad singers (not singing correctly).

 

[eaeolian]

Actually, to be fair, Misha said he programmed them first, then the drummer learned them...added his own flair to it and then the recording of the MIDI data from that was run through Superior. Misha programs the drums on absolutely everything he records (if you want to work with him...) and whether the drummer learns it and it's recorded from that is up to them.

At this point, we're quibbling over semantics. A live human drummer played the parts, even if the drums were midi and not miked up - and there's a noticeable difference between the drums on the "demos" and the ones on the album, for sure.

Also, a lot of stuff is Axe-fx & Superior and doesn't sound that way but I think the point is a lot of Djent bands use the same tools with the same presets and it sounds the same. It isn't something entirely universal to the scene but definitely a majority of it has that one sound. I'm not exactly thrilled about that but I also don't listen to all of those bands...just the exceptional ones.

Exactly what I was trying to say - it's not a function of the gear, it's a function of the mindset of the people making the music. I know someone who records fusion with an AxeFx, though he keeps flipping between it and iso cabs because the AxeFx isn't quite "there" yet. As this scene grows and some of the better bands start to develop their own identities, it will be interesting to see what the results are...

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Sounds overly defensive - and, in fact, somewhat insulting due to your choice of words - accusing people of "whining" about something when you don't agree with them is pretty much a universal insult. I just find it amusing that you can't address a legitimate criticism of the bands without resorting to being insulting.

Bawwwwwwwwwwwww. Never have I seen so much crying over something so inoffensive.

At this point, we're quibbling over semantics. A live human drummer played the parts, even if the drums were midi and not miked up - and there's a noticeable difference between the drums on the "demos" and the ones on the album, for sure.

That he recorded them live is irrelevant. Alot of drummers record live but after sound replacement and editing it sure as hell doesn't sound live. Because Matt their drummer used an electronic kit there was no need for sound replacing, but I am sure they were edited quite a bit because the drumming on the CD does not sound like how he plays live.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Also, a lot of stuff is Axe-fx & Superior and doesn't sound that way but I think the point is a lot of Djent bands use the same tools with the same presets and it sounds the same. It isn't something entirely universal to the scene but definitely a majority of it has that one sound. I'm not exactly thrilled about that but I also don't listen to all of those bands...just the exceptional ones.

I also am a Superior 2.0 user (and I use e-drums as well as program) and have used an axefx (but won't own one till late summer) and they're both capable of a lot more, sure... but the standard/generic(?) djent sound is an inorganic sound and it's best achieved (so far) with those tools...

I agree with you to an extent. However, the tones the djent bands go for with those sounds is specifically and exceptionally fake because they are meant to sound inorganic, as you implied. The "natural" sounds you can get with Superior 2.0 and axe FX will NEVER sound truly 100% natural. They always will sound fake, and when you top that by over-editing in pro tools you have a fake sounding record made under the intent of it sounding "natural" or whatever. A record will not sound organic unless there are real drums and actual tube amps. It's like saying we can make CGI look "organic" when that's not true either -- no matter how good we get with CGI the eye will always be able to differentiate the real from the fake.

Anyways, just my opinion.

 

[eaeolian]

Bawwwwwwwwwwwww. Never have I seen so much crying over something so inoffensive.

That he recorded them live is irrelevant. Alot of drummers record live but after sound replacement and editing it sure as hell doesn't sound live. Because Matt their drummer used an electronic kit there was no need for sound replacing, but I am sure they were edited quite a bit because the drumming on the CD does not sound like how he plays live.

Everything was edited for the recording, not just the drums. NOTHING in their live show other than some of Misha's parts sounds like the CD. They're nowhere near that level of mechanical feel live.

 

[eaeolian]

I agree with you to an extent. However, the tones the djent bands go for with those sounds is specifically and exceptionally fake because they are meant to sound inorganic, as you implied. The "natural" sounds you can get with Superior 2.0 and axe FX will NEVER sound truly 100% natural. They always will sound fake, and when you top that by over-editing in pro tools you have a fake sounding record made under the intent of it sounding "natural" or whatever. A record will not sound organic unless there are real drums and actual tube amps. It's like saying we can make CGI look "organic" when that's not true either -- no matter how good we get with CGI the eye will always be able to differentiate the real from the fake.

Anyways, just my opinion.

There will come a day when the resolution on the modelers will get so good that it's hard to tell about the tones, but you'll always be able to hear programmed (or quantized) drums. The question is - much like digital recording - will people cease to care if it's "live" before than point is reached?

 

[Kaosaur]

The question is - much like digital recording - will people cease to care if it's "live" before than point is reached?

For 99% of people listening, the answer to that is already yes.

They may care but not many people can even tell the difference. The tools are at the point where "natural" drumming can be (and is) faked.