Have your religious/spiritual beliefs changed in the past year?

[zabu of nΩd]

Vihris, you're collapsing into the Twilight Zone of thought in which you can't even go along with basic concepts of existence...I'd highly suggest you allow yourself to get a grip on the fact that the universe exists quickly. I don't have to explain or rationalize things which quite clearly are. You're alive right now. So am I. Do I have any logical explanation to intrinsically prove this? No, but we assume it is true lest we fall into the aforementioned world of everything just being completely illogical, which doesn't allow discussions or arguments to take place merely because nothing can be proven.

As far as I know, the only thing we can rationally justify the existence of is ourselves (according to Descartes' "evil genius" proof). It's perfectly rational to doubt the existence of everything we experience outside of ourselves (including the existence of matter!), but we traditionally just fall back onto the principle of observation since it's the most practical thing to do.

That said, I'm quite confident in doubting the existence of the universe. And I don't see why you're so afraid of reaching an 'unanswerable' result, since it's pretty much inevitable in this discussion.

Therefore... fuck atheism.

 

[Life Sucks]

I'm actually starting to believe that when we die we become spirits where we can travel the universe in seconds. We can walk on the Earth but not be seen. You gain infinite knowledge. After traveling, after a while you will be reincarnated to some other being depending on how you life was before. I still don't believe in any higher beings but the one that judges you is the universe itself. After a while if you don't learn then you will be trapped in time where you can't move but can only think. After a while the Universe will let you free. Some may call this bullshit but I am starting to believe it. I dream about it everyone in a while and can see it happening.

I think that when you die, there is complete, utter nothingness, just like before you were born. Before, there was nothing, then we are born, and then we soon return to nothing. This is the most likely scenario. My beliefs haven't change in many many years.

 

[skeptik]

Because, physically speaking, matter and energy are the only things for which there is really a question of existence. Pretty much everything else in the universe is based off of those, so their existence is really based off the existence of matter/energy.

I'd be interested to hear some examples of other things you believe exist, besides matter - and see if you can come up with something that isn't intrinsically tied into matter.

You are diverging from the point. Based on what we know, which is the only thing upon which we can actually base anything that we have to say with any confidence as toward its certainty, the most sound conclusion that we are able to reach is that things exist due to some cause. We may never be able to explain that 'first cause,' but that does not negate the validity of the previous statement.

 

[cookiecutter]

I'm actually starting to believe that when we die we become spirits where we can travel the universe in seconds. We can walk on the Earth but not be seen. You gain infinite knowledge. After traveling, after a while you will be reincarnated to some other being depending on how you life was before. I still don't believe in any higher beings but the one that judges you is the universe itself. After a while if you don't learn then you will be trapped in time where you can't move but can only think. After a while the Universe will let you free. Some may call this bullshit but I am starting to believe it. I dream about it everyone in a while and can see it happening.

lol cool evidence bro. That sounds totally real and believable.

As to the original topic, my views have not changed in the past year. I have only gotten more knowledgeable and better at expressing them.

 

[skeptik]

As far as I know, the only thing we can rationally justify the existence of is ourselves (according to Descartes' "evil genius" proof). It's perfectly rational to doubt the existence of everything we experience outside of ourselves (including the existence of matter!), but we traditionally just fall back onto the principle of observation since it's the most practical thing to do.

That said, I'm quite confident in doubting the existence of the universe. And I don't see why you're so afraid of reaching an 'unanswerable' result, since it's pretty much inevitable in this discussion.

Therefore... fuck atheism.

We've moved on well beyond Descartes...have you ever heard of Hume?

 

[cookiecutter]

As far as I know, the only thing we can rationally justify the existence of is ourselves (according to Descartes' "evil genius" proof). It's perfectly rational to doubt the existence of everything we experience outside of ourselves (including the existence of matter!), but we traditionally just fall back onto the principle of observation since it's the most practical thing to do.

That said, I'm quite confident in doubting the existence of the universe. And I don't see why you're so afraid of reaching an 'unanswerable' result, since it's pretty much inevitable in this discussion.

Therefore... fuck atheism.

1. You seem to be describing solipsism, although a lot of your posts just had me going "wat". In my view solipsism is irrelevant because if you cannot tell the difference between a fake universe where you are the only thing that exists and a real one, it may as well be the real one.

2. What does this have to do with atheism?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

And I don't see why you're so afraid of reaching an 'unanswerable' result, since it's pretty much inevitable in this discussion.

Therefore... fuck atheism.

I'm not afraid of it...your claim is inherently illogical and ridiculous to entertain if we're to have an intelligent discussion regarding religion.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

You are diverging from the point. Based on what we know, which is the only thing upon which we can actually base anything that we have to say with any confidence as toward its certainty, the most sound conclusion that we are able to reach is that things exist due to some cause. We may never be able to explain that 'first cause,' but that does not negate the validity of the previous statement.

What I think this really comes down to (correct me if I'm wrong) is whether a rational justification or an observational justification is enough for the existence of a god. Atheists are forced to accept the observational justification; but I'm afraid that's not good enough for me.

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

It's missing a certain option .

 

[Alter]

We've moved on well beyond Descartes...have you ever heard of Hume?

Even being a Catholic I understand what you are saying here. Descartes,despite being an amazing genius he was, was always changing the way he believed in god to fit his new mathematical display of creation and the cosmos.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

What we observe, test, and theorize IS rational.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I'm not afraid of it...your claim is inherently illogical and ridiculous to entertain if we're to have an intelligent discussion regarding religion.

Judging by how little you've actually read my posts so far, you don't seem willing to have an intelligent discussion anyway. All you're doing is telling me how ridiculous I sound, without saying why. That's a pretty clear indication of lack of reading comprehension on your part.

 

[cookiecutter]

What I think this really comes down to (correct me if I'm wrong) is whether a rational justification or an observational justification is enough for the existence of a god. Atheists are forced to accept the observational justification; but I'm afraid that's not good enough for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

 

[Cythraul]

I don't think my opinions regarding these matters have changed substantially in the past year. I'm still an agnostic. I used to be Catholic when I was very young, but as George Carlin would say, I stopped being a Catholic when I reached the age of reason.

The godless view of the world I find rather depressing, but I can't help but be inclined to gravitate towards it. I think the whole notion of giving your own meaning to your existence is bullshit and stupid and an awfully poor substitute. It's not surprising why one would want to turn to religion.

Here's a question that never gets asked in these sorts of discussions: What is the value of seeking truth, especially in these matters? Is it as valuable as people make it out to be? Why? It seems like nobody ever asks this question, but the value of having nothing but true beliefs is always taken for granted.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

What about it?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Judging by how little you've actually read my posts so far, you don't seem willing to have an intelligent discussion anyway. All you're doing is telling me how ridiculous I sound, without saying why. That's a pretty clear indication of lack of reading comprehension on your part.

Once you actually start displaying some semblance of logicality, I might feel the need to actually discuss things. As it is now, we're not on the same level of thinking and thus are not going to be able to communicate ideas to each other in an agreeable (or even disagreeable, since there is no real relation between HOW you are thinking and HOW I think) way.

 

[Alter]

Yes, it is. I in firm belief that the cosmos were created by the big bang. There is nothing around that fact, it is proven through sound,physics and other science. But, as cheesy has it sounds, I have been in the Catholic faith to see and hear of things that keep my faith strong. I try to balance both to create my sense of faith.
Does this create a paradox to some people? If so please state it but dont be thickheaded and say something that is disrespectful.

 

[skeptik]

I think the whole notion of giving your own meaning to your existence is bullshit and stupid and an awfully poor substitute.

Why?

Here's a question that never gets asked in these sorts of discussions: What is the value of seeking truth, especially in these matters? Is it as valuable as people make it out to be? Why? It seems like nobody ever asks this question, but the value of having nothing but true beliefs is always taken for granted.

I think that this depends mostly on what the eventual answer is (that we will most likely never reach), but also of course the value that the individual puts on it, but pragmatically it of course generally makes little to no difference.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

What I think this really comes down to (correct me if I'm wrong) is whether a rational justification or an observational justification is enough for the existence of a god. Atheists are forced to accept the observational justification

V.V.V.V.V. - does this sound correct to you? This is pretty much my whole point.

 

[cookiecutter]

I don't think my opinions regarding these matters have changed substantially in the past year. I'm still an agnostic. I used to be Catholic when I was very young, but as George Carlin would say, I stopped being a Catholic when I reached the age of reason.

The godless view of the world I find rather depressing, but I can't help but be inclined to gravitate towards it. I think the whole notion of giving your own meaning to your existence is bullshit and stupid and an awfully poor substitute. It's not surprising why one would want to turn to religion.

Here's a question that never gets asked in these sorts of discussions: What is the value of seeking truth, especially in these matters? Is it as valuable as people make it out to be? Why? It seems like nobody ever asks this question, but the value of having nothing but true beliefs is always taken for granted.

I don't find anything depressing. If anything I feel happier because I know my beliefs are based on sound reasoning. I don't feel like I lost anything because what was to be gained was not real.

The value of seeking truth for me is simple. I like to know I am right. I feel bad when I am wrong.

What about it?

If you understood it, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Observational (empirical) data is the basis for rational conclusions.