Hey Americans, when is enough enough?

[He's Dead, Jim]

For someone who's done an undergraduate thesis you're pretty shit at actually reading the thread...

Yes he stole intellectual property. But the owner of that property wanted the charges dropped.
Instead he was marked as a "terrorist" (god I am SICK of that word getting thrown around everywhere!) and was facing a 50 year prison sentence.

Yeah, the prosecutor (or in this case, the state) can move forward with charges despite the plaintiff dropping them. Not specific to this case. I can read. Derp.

What the above poster said about banks not being held accountable is basically my view. It's totally criminal that none of those guys went to jail (the LIBOR scandal in the UK was even worse). But that doesn't excuse some 20-year-old stealing for something universities pay shitloads of money for. The fact that the articles were going to be made public anyway is a tragic irony, but that doesn't make what he did legal or right.

 

[John_C]

The normal academic journals are a joke. They provide barely any service whatsoever, charge large subscription fees and limit the availability of important information to only those who can and will pay. This limits the knowledge and creativity of people the world over.

For those who don't know, peer review is done on a voluntary basis. All the journals do is make rather arbitrary decisions about how important they think work is (i.e. is it going to attract subscribers and advertisers) and enforce a style-guide. All the checks for quality and correctness are done by volunteer academics on an anonymous basis, chosen for their expertise relevant to the paper in question.

A multi-million dollar industry in anonymous matchmaking? Leave that to the "get laid quick" sites.

More recently, journals like this are starting to appear: http://www.plosone.org/ A very good idea IMO

 

[drew_drummer]

The normal academic journals are a joke. They provide barely any service whatsoever, charge large subscription fees and limit the availability of important information to only those who can and will pay. This limits the knowledge and creativity of people the world over.

For those who don't know, peer review is done on a voluntary basis. All the journals do is make rather arbitrary decisions about how important they think work is (i.e. is it going to attract subscribers and advertisers) and enforce a style-guide. All the checks for quality and correctness are done by volunteer academics on an anonymous basis, chosen for their expertise relevant to the paper in question.

A multi-million dollar industry in anonymous matchmaking? Leave that to the "get laid quick" sites.

More recently, journals like this are starting to appear: http://www.plosone.org/ A very good idea IMO

Great link! Have to share that.

 

[egan.]

The normal academic journals are a joke. They provide barely any service whatsoever, charge large subscription fees and limit the availability of important information to only those who can and will pay. This limits the knowledge and creativity of people the world over.

I'll add that in the US it's a racket because Professors at public universities paid by state dollars get federal grants to do research that they then publish and public institutions PAY to see the research that the public/government paid for in the first place. It's bullshit.

That said, it's worth noting that JSTOR just bundles these journals online and sells subscriptions for a fraction of what it would cost to subscribe to everything they offer. There is nothing sinister about it. It's just a library service.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Let me get this right: a wealthy, depressed, self-made internet whiz threatens to give out inexpensive, non-corporate, academic information for free. An angry, menopaused judge declares war on this kid to try to get him 50 years in prison, despite the fact that he probably pays more in taxes than the value of all the journals combined.

What part of that story makes sense? NONE.

"Of course he killed himself. That's common for depressed people." You guys are out of your fucking minds. What kind of metalheads are you?

 

[egan.]

Let me get this right: a wealthy, depressed, self-made internet whiz threatens to give out inexpensive, non-corporate, academic information for free. An angry, menopaused judge declares war on this kid to try to get him 50 years in prison, despite the fact that he probably pays more in taxes than the value of all the journals combined.

What part of that story makes sense? NONE.

"Of course he killed himself. That's common for depressed people." You guys are out of your fucking minds. What kind of metalheads are you?

Please enlighten us as to the motivation to kill him. You can make it sound extra-absurd by skewing facts (academic journals are extremely expensive which is the entire motivation for liberating them; an ADA isn't a judge, etc.) but you've yet to provide a motive. Everyone including his friends, family, lawyers and court docs say that he wanted to free information. I can log onto JSTOR right now through a part time relationship with a university. Whatever evil is in there is available to millions of regular people.
So if it's not about the JSTOR articles specifically what's it about? If it's about silencing an activist is 50 years in jail not a sufficient conspiracy? So again, what's the motivation to kill him?
His friends and family all talk about his depression. How might the possibility of spending the rest of ones life in jail affect someone (with a history of depression or not)?
None of us is "out of our minds" for basing our opinions on the most likely rather than the most provocative possible explanation. You may be right but you are quite wrong if you believe others have drawn an illogical conclusion.

 

[Mutant]

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

I don't know what was in there, and none of us will ever know.

What is more unlikely:

High level judge on an agenda to persecute someone for distributing academic journal articles (lol btw <-- this alone makes no sense)

AND AT THE SAME TIME

Wealthy, famous, young, bright, internet mogal whacks himself (not lol but this is even more rare, I cannot recall)

OR

Potential terrorist gets murdered prior to going to a major trial that makes no sense

In my fucked up ass mind option 2 here seems much more likely. We've all seen option 2 happen many times. Never option 1.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

When has option 2 happened? (in the US)

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

Let me get this right: a wealthy, depressed, self-made internet whiz threatens to give out inexpensive, non-corporate, academic information for free. An angry, menopaused judge declares war on this kid to try to get him 50 years in prison, despite the fact that he probably pays more in taxes than the value of all the journals combined.

What part of that story makes sense? NONE.

"Of course he killed himself. That's common for depressed people." You guys are out of your fucking minds. What kind of metalheads are you?

1. Academic journal licenses for JSTOR are INCREDIBLY expensive.
2. What does "non-corporate" mean?
3. Just because it's academic doesn't mean it's free.
4. Judge and prosecutor are not the same thing
5. It makes perfect sense. The prosecutor is, by all rights, trying to make a name for herself. That's morally questionable, but he also did something illegal. There's also a lot of brinksmanship in these sorts of cases where you threaten to do X and the person offers Y, and the actual terms of sentencing would likely have been negligible anyway.
6. Suicide isn't common for people suffering from depression? lolwut

This is a very sad case, but there's nothing even remotely conspiratorial about it. People kill themselves before trials all the fucking time.

 

[egan.]

I don't know what was in there, and none of us will ever know.

What is more unlikely:

High level judge on an agenda to persecute someone for distributing academic journal articles (lol btw <-- this alone makes no sense)

AND AT THE SAME TIME

Wealthy, famous, young, bright, internet mogal whacks himself (not lol but this is even more rare, I cannot recall)

OR

Potential terrorist gets murdered prior to going to a major trial that makes no sense

In my fucked up ass mind option 2 here seems much more likely. We've all seen option 2 happen many times. Never option 1.

So your contention then is that the entire crime is fictionalized to begin with? He wasn't downloading articles from JSTOR but something else from somewhere else but that the HE, the prosecutor, JSTOR and MIT all agreed to publicly pretend the crime he was charged with occurred? That the crime was fictionalized to put a national spotlight on him BEFORE he would be killed?
I seriously am trying to follow your reasoning.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

Nah, I think he means that some of the powers that be were already planning on offing him, and just took advantage of this opportunity to stage it (I happen to feel this is highly unlikely)

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

Yeah, and Obama killed Tupac in a drone strike before taking away all our guns and giving the UN control of the internet. Bush did 9/11 btw

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

No the guy clearly did something illegal, and worthy of a court trial. But the powers that be were after his ass. Why? He could have easily bought his way out of this if it was as simple as stealing academic documents. If OJ could get off, this would have been a snap.

And even if he did kill himself and there was no suicider, the real question is why was our court system so determined to fry this guy? That makes no sense at all. There are too many things that don't add up here.

BTW, the criminals in charge of our country will be happy to hear you say "that is not real evidence." They are expecting you to say that.

 

[egan.]

Nah, I think he means that some of the powers that be were already planning on offing him, and just took advantage of this opportunity to stage it (I happen to feel this is highly unlikely)

But the term "terrorism" is only assigned to this case as it relates to the way he was charged for the JSTOR "theft." Demand Progress is a pretty benign organization and while critical of our government it played a role in getting the current administration elected so it's hard to imagine that would justify an assassination. So again, what's the motivation to kill him?

 

[Jind]

No the guy clearly did something illegal, and worthy of a court trial. But the powers that be were after his ass. Why? He could have easily bought his way out of this if it was as simple as stealing academic documents. If OJ could get off, this would have been a snap.

And even if he did kill himself and there was no suicider, the real question is why was our court system so determined to fry this guy? That makes no sense at all. There are too many things that don't add up here.

BTW, the criminals in charge of our country will be happy to hear you say "that is not real evidence." They are expecting you to say that.

Did you not read the article that I posted from Lawrence Lessig (a personal friend and at one time attorney advising Aaron on his defense - his conflict of interest, being employed as a Harvard Professor eventually forced him to stop the legal aspect, but Aaron was a very close friend and colleague) where he states that Aaron had already exhausted his wealth on his defense up to this point?

But if you want to find a bogey man in this, look no further than an over reaction in regards to going after individuals over corporations that if they did the same thing (which they do every single day), they would get a simple fine rather than prison time.

My being upset over this whole issue is not thinking that what he did is not wrong or deserves some level of prosecution, its that there has to be some questioning done when corporations can bankrupt this country and drive it to financial crises points but receive only slaps on the wrist fines, but if an individual does something far less damaging, in the grand scheme of things, our government decides to set examples out of them.

Aaron did take his own life after being driven to that point where almost anyone would feel they had little options in regards to getting out of the situation they themselves caused. couple that feeling of helplessness with an overzealous US Attorney and Prosecutor that saw his punishment as a stepping stone to higher office and you have the end result we have. It really is that simple despite all your conspiracy theories.

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Did you not read the article that I posted from Lawrence Lessig (a personal friend and at one time attorney advising Aaron on his defense - his conflict of interest, being employed as a Harvard Professor eventually forced him to stop the legal aspect, but Aaron was a very close friend and colleague) where he states that Aaron had already exhausted his wealth on his defense up to this point? .

That is exactly what I am saying. Anyone with money could easily buy his way out of this. But this guy couldn't buy his way out, despite his wealth. They wanted his ass from the beginning.

This is the way shit works here. Don't fuck with the man. He owns you and me. Don't ever forget that. That's why I don't post details (go ahead, laugh at that and talk shit and post ancient aliens shit on me). The last thing I want is a completely plausible argument and a following. Believe me I have the man's balls in my mouth. But I have one eye open. I'm just hoping a few of you guys around the country open your eyes and start talking (not chatting) about this stuff with your friends. That's the only way it will stop. We need to stop talking shit about the 99%ers. We need to start talking to our friends and relatives, "hey, did you hear about this? man, it's kind of unamerican that this would happen." And then get your friends and relatives to talk to their friends and relatives. That is the ONLY way this will stop.

Or you can sit on your ass and play guitar. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Jind]

Here is an interview Prof. Lessig did yesterday about the case and opinions on the prosecutorial overreach.

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/lessig-on-aaron-swartz/50f4037278c90a0554000129

 

[drew_drummer]

Here is an interview Prof. Lessig did yesterday about the case and opinions on the prosecutorial overreach.

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/lessig-on-aaron-swartz/50f4037278c90a0554000129

Sorry, I know I shouldn't laugh... but "I was in bed getting ready to cum.. er.. to sleep..." ... rofls.