Hipster Metal

[Stormwatch]

Rock me Amadeus?



Most metal 'artists' are up to the same thing that most 'artists' in any genre are up to: repeating, recycling and regurgitating what more creative people have already done.

For this reason, I don't see much sense in paying attention to what 'most bands' in any genre are doing. What makes sense is paying attention to the ones that matter.



You are always entitled to be wrong, don't let me stand in the way of you exercising your freedom as an induhvidual.

You are right, however, to point to the superficiality of reading music through lyrics - lyrics can form an interpretive guide or a form of modifier, but the primary content of music lies in...the music.



No, I'm saying that when people are able to engage with ideas honestly and articulately - without regard to belief or non-belief - they don't address those ideas with verbal copouts like "cheesy." The latter is fundamentally an admission that you don't like it, you don't get it, and you're going to hide behind an inane 'criticism' that can't possibly be gainsaid because it doesn't actually mean anything.



It's not even a question of universal ideals, though it needs to be acknowledged that some ideas are simply better than others (which is why Bach is still celebrated, but five years down the road, no one remembers The Drowning Pool). Once you scrape away the images the hipster bands have cloaked themselves in, what are you left with? Generic retro-metal. "But we don't take it seriously, so it's ironic, see?" As if irony were in and of itself a sufficient reason-to-be.

FAIL

Clearly you never noticed his sig. He's a homo. Ignore him and his shit.

 

[AgoliantLives]

Cheers to the last two posts.

 

[Hatebreeder]

I hope you're kidding.

I'll let you interpret that.

 

[Jreg]

Essentially the problem is this: metal is full of elements which make it seem ridiculous to outsiders. The classic obsession with evil & Satan et al, gore, fantasy, etc. - themes that have been so overused in metal to the point of becoming insanely clichéd. If you choose to become involved in this scene, you either decide that those things are cool (in which case you're pretty much an idiot), or you dismiss them as extraneous to the more important elements (i.e. the actual music), and then perhaps even develop an apologism for the elements of the scene you would rather disassociate from.

But what is someone who already has a strong aversion to cheesiness going to do when they discover metal? Rather than bother to find the non-cheesy core of the music, they're likely to reject it entirely. "Hipster metal" therefore appeals to hipsters by remaining free of the cheesy aesthetics from the outset (Mastodon, Isis) or exploiting those aesthetics in an ironic fashion (Sunn O)))). From here, hipsters may begin to appreciate more aesthetically cheesy metal, but will always claim their appreciation to be irony, which is something "real" metalheads resent. However, I don't think it's their appreciation for the music that is really ironic. The "ironic" method is simply a way of expressing appreciation for the music while distancing oneself from the aesthetic associated with it.

Much of that is very true. Metal has always been characterized by an excessively morbid and/or other-wordly/supernatural aesthetic, and I think the bands who fall under the umbrella of "hipster metal" often go against that tradition. But I also think that phenomenon is a product of media hype. In the last couple of decades, there have been plenty of bands who embrace metal's sonic qualities without pandering to those themes, many of which you need not scratch too far below the surface to find. But no matter how many of those sort of bands exist, metal will always be known for its obsessions with gore, fantasy and evil. The so-called hipsters are just the latest crop of bands pegged by the media as the antidote---evidence that the genre is finally maturing and progressing, according to them. To me, it's just something that journalists can always make an article out of: "Metal band who doesn't worship Satan!"

 

[Blue_Jay]

"children of bodom is not cheesy"

I ment Children Of Bodom is a good intro to music aka what I think what you guys are talking about with hipster metal. Sorry my grammar and speech needs work.

 

[MURAI]

Anyway, satanic imagery and lyrics is probably the single most annoying aspect of the genre for me. It's just such a comical aesthetic. I don't know how anybody doing this kind of stuff can take themself seriously. Deathspell Omega is probably the only satanist band that doesn't make me laugh (although they'd do well to just drop the satan stuff anyway).

I guess when you think of cheesy bands using Satan for imagery, you think Venom. Do you feel Satan, is a little too over the top to use as an image? I do not think usng Satan as imagery is always bad because some well known bands Slayer (early) and Entombed pull it off good.

 

[MURAI]

And what bands are considered "hipster metal"?

In that discussion, it was noted that hipster metal bands just take earlier metal and just turns it around by adding a few new elements to it. Not just trendy metal but trendy movements in general is based on just forcing genres togather and marketing it off as something cool.

 

[CF87]

Tool is no way hipster metal, no hipster would ever admit to liking Tool as they're way too pretentious for a band that has a primary audience of 15 year old boys.

Essentially the problem is this: metal is full of elements which make it seem ridiculous to outsiders. The classic obsession with evil & Satan et al, gore, fantasy, etc. - themes that have been so overused in metal to the point of becoming insanely clichéd.

Other styles of music have specific lyrical themes also. It's not just metal music.

"themes that have been so overused in metal to the point of becoming insanely clichéd"

If you think this does not apply to any other genre's than music is not something you should worry about or make a priority. You could not possibly be a more 'cliche' or clueless listener. If christina aguilera sang about satan and sitting in the woods covered in frost would that make any fucking sense you dweeb.

 

[Stormwatch]

Other styles of music have specific lyrical themes also. It's not just metal music.

"themes that have been so overused in metal to the point of becoming insanely clichéd"

If you think this does not apply to any other genre's than music is not something you should worry about or make a priority. You could not possibly be a more 'cliche' or clueless listener. If christina aguilera sang about satan and sitting in the woods covered in frost would that make any fucking sense you dweeb.

Instead of editing every post you make, why not just re-read, and if called for, re-draft your post?

 

[AlphaTemplar]

Other styles of music have specific lyrical themes also. It's not just metal music.

But the lyrical themes in metal are a lot more cliched and over-the-top than in other alternative music. Power metal, for example, concentrates on the aesthetic aspects of fantasy and mythology rather than the ideas that the stories were created to explore. It's the difference between Die Hard and Saving Private Ryan - one uses violence merely for the entertainment it provides, while the other uses violence to make an artistic statement.

 

[Necro Joe]

Once you scrape away the images the hipster bands have cloaked themselves in, what are you left with? Generic retro-metal.

There is nothing generic or retro about Isis, Mastodon or Sunn O))).

 

[My Man Mahmoud]

But the lyrical themes in metal are a lot more cliched and over-the-top than in other alternative music. Power metal, for example, concentrates on the aesthetic aspects of fantasy and mythology rather than the ideas that the stories were created to explore. It's the difference between Die Hard and Saving Private Ryan - one uses violence merely for the entertainment it provides, while the other uses violence to make an artistic statement.

Are you so underconfident that you feel the need to have metal conform to mainstream expectations, or are you just a dilettante passing through?

I have a sneaking suspicion it is the latter, given your vulgarly proletarian inability to distinguish between a decent film that manages to make subtle points about American masculinity within the context of an entertaining popcorn flick and a grossly sentimental piece of ham-handed propaganda that spends three hours on a soapbox screaming "LOOK AT ME!"

 

[Necro Joe]

I basically agree with SV's analysis of how hipsters use irony to partially avoid coming into contact with the elements of metal they find unbearably cliche and stupid. Saying that they're afraid of the high-minded concepts put forward by bands like Burzum provides a nice ego boost for metal fans but really the romantic notions some people believe these bands affirm aren't going to find support in the mainstream music community for slightly more obvious reasons than a lack of understanding.

 

[Necro Joe]

...a grossly sentimental piece of ham-handed propaganda that spends three hours on a soapbox screaming "LOOK AT ME!"

Propaganda for who? Do you seriously buy into the idea that SPR is a piece of simple american flag-waving?

 

[Anti-Racism]

I basically agree with SV's analysis of how hipsters use irony to partially avoid coming into contact with the elements of metal they find unbearably cliche and stupid.

They also run away from the stuff they don't understand or disagree with.

Look at this thread on Metal gets a makeover. Hollywood's trying to make metal "safe" for the average dipshit who believes what he or she sees on TV.

 

[My Man Mahmoud]

Propaganda for who? Do you seriously buy into the idea that SPR is a piece of simple american flag-waving?

Do you seriously buy into the idea that it isn't? Spielberg's WWII is a world where Germans are hidden murderers (or lying murderers), Americans are Regular Joe multiculturalists who care about the families and the children, and everyone stands up and salutes the flag through misty eyes.

Compare that to a film that actually addresses the moral ambiguity of warfare (The Thin Red Line, anyone?) and the panderingly propagandistic nature of Spielberg's moralizing cash grab becomes brutally apparent.

 

[Necro Joe]

Its a story about American soldiers so why should it show the opposing army as anything but a threatening force? They exist more to allow an examination of the reluctant sacrifice of the men sent to find Ryan than to debate the morality of warfare. The film is biased because it is from the point of view of someone who thinks the Allies' victory in WWII was a good thing (though obviously if you disagree with that it is not hard to find fault with it) but it is not about how wonderful america is on any but the most superficial level.

 

[Necro Joe]

Anyway Falco I'm not really up for derailing this fairly interesting thread so you can PM me if you want carry on discussing SPR.

 

[Dee Snarl]

There is nothing generic or retro about Isis, Mastodon or Sunn O))).

I don't think these are the bands in question, though I know Mastodon came up in the article.

I think there's a fundamental difference between these bands, and the Wolfmothers, Swords, et al, of the world.

 

[Anti-Racism]

Its a story about American soldiers so why should it show the opposing army as anything but a threatening force?

Reality. Show reality as it is. Take artistic license if you need, but when you style the world as good vs evil be prepared to be known as propaganda.

Like Napalm Death albums.