"Holocaust and WW2 Fatigue"

[JayKeeley]

I was listening to a documentary on the radio this morning which discussed a new memorial being built around Berlin (I think). It's basically the size of two football fields and contains rows upon rows of tombstones - all differing heights - to represent the holocaust victims. As mentioned by an elderly eyewitness, it looks like a "small jungle" and that "the German youth of today probably wouldn't really understand the interpretation".

The fact is, World War 2 happened over 50 years ago, and we now have a generation of children around the world who are far removed from the 'fallout'. The guilt that Germans are still put through is now being pegged with the term "holocaust fatigue" - I can't imagine what it must be like to be a German child being taught the atrocities of the war, alongside alegbra and gym.

What do you guys think? Do we keep teaching and remembering the affects of WW2 with such vigor? Certainly when I was at school, we were taught WW2 in our history class, and never managed to venture further past the 20th century. Anything taught related to Anglo-Saxon history or the Industial Revolution, for example, was almost negligible in comparison.

Also, if memorials are to be built in Germany, then shouldn't the US be doing something equivalent for the Japanese? For sure, I've always felt the dropping of not one, but two atomic bombs, was a ridiculously exaggerated reaction to a wartime attack on Pearl Harbor.

 

[NAD]

The only reason it'll be remembered for a long time is because lots of Jews died, all other modern massacres are quickly forgotten.

The US has enough "memorials" in Japan in the form of military bases, reminding them that "we did it once, we could do it again."

 

[bloodfiredeath]

For sure, I've always felt the dropping of not one, but two atomic bombs, was a ridiculously exaggerated reaction to a wartime attack on Pearl Harbor.

I'm no history expert, but the attack on Pearl Harbor was not wartime for the US. Also, I would hesitate to call the atomic bomb droppings a direct reaction to Pearl Harbor in that there was a substantial amount of warfare between the two events.

That said, I've always had a hard time morally justifying those bombings. Then again, I wouldn't have Godzilla, and probably wouldn't have the crazy ass Japanese culture I know and love now if we didn't...

 

[J.]

The children of present generations will have their own wars to talk about in class. WWII will always be discussed simply because of the 6 million Jews that were killed and because of "Fat Man" and "Little Boy".

The bombings were no more overreactive than the Japanese attacking docked ships and military hospitals simply because the US was supporting the Allies with supplies. And not to sound cliche, but you know how it goes, "All's fair in love and war."

Incidentally, I was watching the news last night, and there is a street in rural Houston simply called "Jap Rd.", which was apparently named for a wealthy Japanese landowner back before WWII. Now, some Japanese equal rights group is fighting to have the name changed because it offends them. Like I'm sure they drive on that road every day. This country is full of overly sensitive wimps today. When the hell did the USA sell out and lose its balls?

I hear Canada is nice.....

 

[Black Winter Day]

as history, ww2 should definitely be taught... but i think the "rivalries" and hatreds from the war are mostly dissipated and yes, memorials are good, but that should only be as far as it goes... anything else would be redundant and unnecessary

 

[JayKeeley]

The bombings were no more overreactive than the Japanese attacking docked ships and military hospitals simply because the US was supporting the Allies with supplies. And not to sound cliche, but you know how it goes, "All's fair in love and war."

Docked ships and military hospitals? Fuck man, the US dropped two A-bombs on entire cities! And why two A-bombs? I mean, after the devastation of the first, you would think that there would be some hesitation in dropping the second. In defence of the US though, they did warn the Japanese that a second would be dropped if they did not surrender, and those damn empirical stubborness attitudes declined waving the white flag.

 

[NAD]

I hear Canada is nice.....

That's what the fuck I'm talking about. I should probably visit the place before seriously considering the move though.

I generally blame our involvement in WWI as the ruination of this great land, but I'm not sure if that's when we become One Nation, Under Wuss.

 

[JayKeeley]

as history, ww2 should definitely be taught... but i think the "rivalries" and hatreds from the war are mostly dissipated and yes, memorials are good, but that should only be as far as it goes... anything else would be redundant and unnecessary

I agree that WW2 should be taught since I think it shaped much of the modern world that we see today. I'm not sure if it's only taught because 6 million Jews died therefore - even the world's economies of today are somewhat shaped by the outcome of WW2, and mostly WW1 come to think of it. The US came out winners in more ways than one.

If genocide dictates the importance of teaching, then schools should include Russia, Cambodia, Rwanda, and Serbia/Bosnia into its curriculum as well. In contrast, I'm not sure if the next ten generations of Germans have to be singled out so specifically - but I could be wrong since I don't know what school curriculums look like today. What kind of history did you guys learn at the age of 15?

 

[Erik]

"The world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base. We have won the race of discovery against the Germans! We have used it to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans. We shall continue to use it until we completely destroy Japan's ability to make war."

 

[JayKeeley]

"The world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base.

What, you mean like Baghdad?

 

[NAD]

Was that George Orwell that said that?

How many people (especially in the US) recognize the word Kosovo, and that was only 5 years ago. Rwanda and Burundi sounds like a leather shoe manufacturer to most Americans. What about Albanians, how many have even HEARD of them?

 

[Erik]

Truman actually...

 

[J.]

"Hiroshima was a city of considerable military importance. It contained the 2nd Army Headquarters, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for troops."

"The city of Nagasaki had been one of the largest sea ports in southern Japan and was of great war-time importance because of its many and varied industries, including the production of ordnance, ships, military equipment, and other war materials. The narrow long strip attacked was of particular importance because of its industries."

You make it sound like they picked these cities over a flip of a coin.

 

[NAD]

<-- was joking

I'm pretty indifferent about the A-bombings. Truman did what he had to do, but why'd he have to do that? (I know, it doesn't make sense)

 

[Erik]

Yeah, I knew you were...

Dreamlord, and you make it sound like it was necessary to eradicate two entire fucking cities instead of bombing strategical targets with regular explosives.

 

[spaffe]

i belive that it is very important to teach the young (hehe i'm not old but let's use that word anyway) the history of hitlers rise to power and the ways that he accomplished it, it is a stark example of mass-suggestion and an example from history telling you to think, and not blindly listen and obey. the crimes comitted in those times, not only the concentration camps but also the deportations of the stalin regime, must not be forgotten, they must serve as a reminder that we should the safeguard democracy, how small it may be, and also a riminder to asure that i wont happen again.
but as you've said, the germans of today can't be held responsible for what their grand fathers did, but we still can't allow such crimes to be forgotten only because it happened a long time ago.

 

[Erik]

What good does it do to make sure to "safeguard democracy" when Hitler gained power by perfectly democratical means? People are impressionable and stupid and that will never change.

 

[NAD]

I think it's funny that the US has spent the better half of the 20th century dismantling both Japan and Germany, yet can hardly keep up with (let alone surpass) them concerning technology, even given the extremely unfair advantage we have.

 

[NAD]

What good does it do to make sure to "safeguard democracy" when Hitler gained power by perfectly democratical means? People are impressionable and stupid and that will never change.

Never underestimate a charismatic persona. Even so, the lesson learned is a bit of of a safeguard to democracy, or at the very least a warning to be careful what you wish for.

 

[J.]

Dreamlord, and you make it sound like it was necessary to eradicate two entire fucking cities instead of bombing strategical targets with regular explosives.

If you can honestly tell me that Japan would have surrendered after the bombing of "strategical targets with regular explosives", then I will totally agree that using the nukes was wrong.

Keep in mind though, that Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor was just a strategical bombing, and look what happened. We counter-attacked. If we had just simply attacked the strategical targets, there is no way they would have surrendered as easily. I mean hell, it took a second bombing to convince them.

And people also seem to forget that the Pearl Harbor attack was totally unwarranted.