"Holocaust and WW2 Fatigue"

[NAD]

I can't imagine how much more frustrating it must be for the intellectual American to watch his/her own tv news stations and see this bullshit, thinking "who are they trying to kid?"

I learned long ago that world politics are completely rational (as in minimal cost with maximum gain, and no concern about others), and see it like a soap opera: someone is always fucking last week's enemy. Granted, it's a very dangerous soap opera, but if you take it too seriously you move to Montana with a weapons cache large enough to rival an entire infantry division.

I think Al-jazeera has a website, I would imagine most of the sensational stuff is in there. You never know if John Ashcroft has your computer flagged though. :Smug:

 

[Erik]

I think Al-jazeera has a website, I would imagine most of the sensational stuff is in there. You never know if John Ashcroft has your computer flagged though. :Smug:

Most of the sensational stuff? It's as ambitious and informative a website as that of any American or European news channel you'd care to name. It's really quite good, I like their Sci-Tech section (I'd rather read that than all those worthless bits about politics and such. Heh)

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

 

[NAD]

Oh, I wasn't trying to be derogatory, I meant that I assumed stuff like the Osama and Hussein tapes (and any fakes) would be easy to find on their website. I suppose I should have said "exciting" instead of "sensational." I happen to love Al-Jazeera, so I thank you for the link.

 

[ChiefB]

Pearl Harbor and Sept 11th do have something in common. Both happened because the US was supporting an enemy of the aggressor. In neither case was the US the aggressor. To me, that is very dishonorable and cowardly) of both Al Quaeda and Japan.

I believe it is very dangerous of people to link Sept 11th with Pearl Harbour. Sept 11th was a strike against a civilian population whereas Pearl Harbour was a military tactic aimed at military personnel. There ARE no similarities between the two in whatever shape or form.

The US don't even know who the enemy is at times. The US funded Bin Laden during their proxy war with the USSR in Afghanistan. They trained a killer who simply turned his sights onto the USA. The USA has got to stop funding these paramilitary groups.

 

[NAD]

The USA has got to stop funding these paramilitary groups.

Until our scorched earth policy ceases, this will never happen. I can't imagine what some groups like the Kurds would do to us given the opportunity and capability.

 

[ChiefB]

Until our scorched earth policy ceases, this will never happen. I can't imagine what some groups like the Kurds would do to us given the opportunity and capability.

My understanding of the 'Scorched Earth Policy' was the introduction of measures by State Interior - Gale Norton - who set back the environmental effort of the US by 20 years. Such measures were, not taxing polluters and spending resources to look for more oil (like the joint venture between USA & Russia) instead of pumping money into alternative fuel sources. Is this what you mean?

The reason why there is distate towards the USA is the fact that they never deliver on their promises. Afghanistan and Iraq are the biggest examples. To be honest you could see this coming because the cost of rebuilding a country is mammoth and to entertain a culture change would take a life time.

 

[NAD]

No, I was referring to the general use once and destroy nature of US foreign policy. Using Osama in the 80s to combat USSR, then turning a blind eye to him later, and making a pretty powerful enemy in the process.

I think the term stems from Napoleon warfare, he would rape crops and then literally burn them down so nobody could use them again. Lemme look it up...

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0020728.html
scorched earth
In warfare, the policy of burning and destroying everything that might be of use to an invading army, especially the crops in the fields. It was used to great effect in Russia in 1812 against the invasion of the French emperor Napoleon and again during World War II to hinder the advance of German forces in 1941.

Looks like it was used against Napoleon, I thought he was the scorcher.

 

[Ayeka]

Bookmark. I like this

 

[NAD]

Bookmark. I like this

I was wondering when you were going to get around to this thread!

 

[General Zod]

As the old saying goes, "those who fail to study history are doomed
to repeat it". It is for this reason that Jews push to have this period of history studied and memorials built. Simply put, they don't want to see a second holocaust. And when you consider how much anti-semitism there is in the world, they have good reason.

Children should be made aware of what happened during WWII. They should also be made of what is happening in modern day. That being said, German children should not be made to feel guilty for something that their grandfathers did, and only a few of their grandfathers at that.

As for our A-Bomb attack on Japan; I was always taught that we wanted to bring a rapid end, to what was becoming a bloody war. While I often feel it's unfair to hold citizens responsible for the actions of their govenment, I have a hard time feeling sorry for a nation that launched an unprovoked attack against us.

GZ

 

[Ayeka]

everything that need to be said has been said, though I'd like to point out with regards to the atomic bomb...as well as the fact that Japan was looking for a surrender before the first bomb was dropped, nobody has considered the fact that America would have wanted to set an impression on Russia with it's military might. Remember, they weren't friends before the way and it was only out of necessity that the Allies put aside their mutual mistrust of Russia for WW2.

CheifB's rant was beautiful

 

[JayKeeley]

That being said, German children should not be made to feel guilty for something that their grandfathers did, and only a few of their grandfathers at that.

Agreed. Maybe it's me getting sentimental with having a kid myself, but I find it quite sad that German children have to feel vindicated for the actions of their grandparents generation, and even then just because your grandfather might have been a Germany infantryman didn't automatically make him a Nazi either. In other words, I can understand this concept perhaps of "holocaust fatigue".

 

[General Zod]

Jay,

Where does your sig line come from? I know you and a few of the RC guys use it.

GZ

 

[JayKeeley]

Jay,

Where does your sig line come from? I know you and a few of the RC guys use it.

GZ

It's from Old Norse poetry. I think this particular Skaldic verse comes from the "Havamal". It's the actual tag line for RC, and I've always been meaning to throw it up on the site somewhere...it's actually on the back of our shirts too. New shirts are in process of being designed - the first were, er, try outs, and the new ones will look very tr00000000oooooooOOOOuue. Or something like that.

 

[Erik]

Yeah, it's from Havamal, a part of the poetic Edda (Edda Saemundar) containing words of wisdom and good advice spoken by Odin. It's been translated and slightly modified for RC's evil purposes.

I found this nice page which has Havamal in Icelandic, Swedish and English, so you can compare:

http://w1.859.telia.com/~u85906673/asar/havamal/havamal.html

The relevant verse is 76, here in a different translation. I encourage all to read the whole thing; it's a good read, full of useful advice and food for thought.

 

[JayKeeley]

Yeah, it's from Havamal, a part of the poetic Edda (Edda Saemundar) containing words of wisdom and good advice spoken by Odin. It's been translated and slightly modified for RC's evil purposes.

Yes, thanks, forgot to mention that we changed it. I think the translations vary, because if I remember right, we changed "Words of Praise" to "Words of Truth", but everything else (from the English translation I found) did not differ.

I found this nice page which has Havamal in Icelandic, Swedish and English, so you can compare:

http://w1.859.telia.com/~u85906673/asar/havamal/havamal.html

Good site indeed.

 

[Erik]

Here's another of my favourite bits:

"84. The speech of a maiden should no man trust
nor the words which a woman says;
for their hearts were shaped on a whirling wheel
and falsehood fixed in their breasts."

Heh heh.

 

[Erik]

Yes, thanks, forgot to mention that we changed it. I think the translations vary, because if I remember right, we changed "Words of Praise" to "Words of Truth", but everything else (from the English translation I found) did not differ.

Yes. There are lots of different translations, none of which, obviously and unfortunately, do justice to the original. Well, I can't even really read the original Icelandic myself, but the Swedish version(s) sounds much better than the English ones anyway.

 

[NAD]

"84. The speech of a maiden should no man trust
nor the words which a woman says;
for their hearts were shaped on a whirling wheel
and falsehood fixed in their breasts."

That's a really kickass link too, I've always loved our tagline (it's what attracted me to the forum in the first place ).

And the first t-shirts are awesome!!!

 

[Ayeka]

"84. The speech of a maiden should no man trust
nor the words which a woman says;
for their hearts were shaped on a whirling wheel
and falsehood fixed in their breasts."

Man, that's precious. That'll be my new MSN nane