How many of you bought Character...

[Magrathean]

Gav is de-evolving.

 

[tunaman]

character was just excellent. and i certainly would never call it damage done II just because dd was heavier than the previous albums and character preceed to be heavier than dd. i like projector, haven, damage done, and some songs off of the gallery and the mind's eye. i still have yet to buy skydancer. can you give us any specific reasons why you think character sounds like it's simply dd2.

i have concluded one of the things that makes dt great too me is that every one of their albums has it's own sound and depending on my mood i'll listen to a certain one. also, every one of their songs are always different. they don't simply regurgiatate material. i believe haven had some wonderful clean w/piano to distorted work on it(ex. ego drama, emptier still, the loss for words). damage done was great, they stepped up the electronics in a good way, alot the material (riffs/electronics) were pretty emotional and a very broad and different sound for every song; but you can always tell it's dt.

character still has to be their best work yet. you can tell that they felt the need to step up the technicality, integrate the electronics into the riffs even better, and stanne's style was much more agressive and suited the new sound perfect. all of the songs are composed with great deatail in their arrangements and riffs etc., and the artwork is great as well as the lyrics. song titles are interesting like any other dt album. the great thing about charcter is you realize as soon as the new build starts playing and into the preceeding tracks that dt has actually written an album that is much more heavy and technical. usually bands do the opposite when they release a new album. especially if they've been around a long time. just because i think character is heavy and to me is their best work so far doesn't mean i don't like their previous works such as projector or haven. i love dt because i don't get bored with the broad spectrum of material they have written.

 

[AALLGOD]

Character is great. They haven't had that raw of a sound since The Gallery, and I am glad they got grittier. The Gallery is still one of my favorite albums that I own, and I listen to it way too much.

 

[King Chaos]

You guys taking the piss?

@tunaman: Smart and true things you say.

 

[Magrathean]

dd was heavier than the previous albums and character preceed to be heavier than dd.

Well, take that, for example. Damage set a heavier tone than Haven and everything before it had, and it relies more on fast riffs and somewhat more direct lyrics (compare that to their previous albums, which relied more on complex song structure and heavily metaphorical lyrics), and Character just followed in the same vein.

i have concluded one of the things that makes dt great too me is that every one of their albums has it's own sound and depending on my mood i'll listen to a certain one. also, every one of their songs are always different. they don't simply regurgiatate material.

I would totally agree if DT hadn't released Character, but a lot of songs on it sound similar to each other and almost all are political and social commentary (while the songs on the other albums are all about different things). It's like Mikael wrote one or two songs for Character, ran out of things to write and decided to use different words to express the same ideas another nine or ten times.

damage done was great, they stepped up the electronics in a good way, alot the material (riffs/electronics) were pretty emotional and a very broad and different sound for every song; but you can always tell it's dt.

Precisely. Again, each album is different from the others in several ways, one of which is the style/instruments. For instance, Skydancer was both more melodic and more brutal than their later work, while The gallery had simpler/shorter songs (and definitely heavier ones) but (imo) better lyrics. TMI is a kind of transition from The Gallery's heaviness and Projector's "mellowness", and Projector was full-blown melodic "soft" (in compared to other DT albums; sure, there's a couple of "heavy" songs, but you know what i mean) metal with clean vocals for the first time (if you don't count Through ebony archways), the most drastic change from one album to the next in DT's history. Then Haven was another radical change with the electronics and all, but it still kept some of Projector's "softness" and one song with clean vocals so as to not be a complete change. Damage, as i mentioned above, set an even heavier and faster pace and geared down in electronics and up in guitars/bass. But Character fails to offer us any real change from the previous album. Sure, maybe they integrate the electronics better, as you say, but it's not really something new.

character still has to be their best work yet. you can tell that they felt the need to step up the technicality, integrate the electronics into the riffs even better, and stanne's style was much more agressive and suited the new sound perfect. all of the songs are composed with great deatail in their arrangements and riffs etc., and the artwork is great as well as the lyrics.

DT have always composed their songs with great technicality, detail and dedication. More aggressive doesn't necessarily mean more technical or better. It just means DT failed to come up with an idea for their new album and instead chose to follow in the vein of Damage, only going more "extreme" (heavier, faster, more brutal).

song titles are interesting like any other dt album.

I disagree (i find most song titles on Character to be way below DT standards), but that's just a matter of opinion, so i won't indulge in that.

the great thing about charcter is you realize as soon as the new build starts playing and into the preceeding tracks that dt has actually written an album that is much more heavy

Yes.

and technical.

No. Haven, TMI and Projector are way more technical than Character (unless by 'technical' you mean 'techy', but i don't think that's the case; correct me if i'm wrong).

usually bands do the opposite when they release a new album. especially if they've been around a long time. just because i think character is heavy and to me is their best work so far doesn't mean i don't like their previous works such as projector or haven. i love dt because i don't get bored with the broad spectrum of material they have written.

I think we all agree that DT is a great band and that their stuff is mostly way above most other bands and seldom bores DT fans.

 

[QRV]

Character has got more fire than DD. I like them both, maybe DD a bit more. Anyway, I'd have to listen to Character more throughly than I've done so far.

 

[tunaman]

Yes.No. Haven, TMI and Projector are way more technical than Character (unless by 'technical' you mean 'techy', but i don't think that's the case; correct me if i'm wrong).

i don't see how you can say anything on projector or haven is close to as technical as the material on character. seriously from a standpoint of technical skill and technical writing with the guitar compare "wonders at your feet" to "the new build", or "the sun fired blanks" to "mind matters". i love those songs as well but there is simply no comparison.

the drumming throughout is better, how about the bass line in "out of nothing" and simply the complexity of that song. in character there was alot of attention to the guitars working together and switching in and out of certain riffs or leads. not like they havn't done this before is previous work but i believe it was more prominent in character. there were also many more harmonics which from experience are easy to play by themselves but not easy to play within a fast paced riff and make it sound perfect going from palm muting too hammer on to harmonic or whatever combination of things your playing.

 

[Magrathean]

Guitars aren't everything. The electronics are way better in Haven than on Character, the lyrics are more varied (i won't say "better" because the lyrics on Character are also very good, only kind of repetitive) on both Projector and Haven, and the general feel of those two albums as what they are (albums) and not merely a collection of songs is much more solid in everything prior to 2002. Hell, even Damage done has a better album feel than Character. I can play Haven, Projector, The mind's i, The gallery and even Damage done sometimes (when i'm in the mood for fast music and lots of guitar) over and over without getting bored, but i get enough of Character after the second play (first one on worse days).

'Technical' isn't having harder riffs. 'Technical' is making more complex songs in which all the elements add up perfectly and the loss of one instrument means the destruction of the song rather than four minutes of complicated guitar riffs with decent drums, repetitive lyrics and filler electronics which occasionally play an important part during the intro, outro or bridge of a song.

 

[marduk1507]

I totally agree with UC. I think Character was an album for the fans. What I mean is that I simply cannot believe DT made it just for themselves, like, we do what we like and if our fans like it, ok, if they dont, well, we dont rely on it that much, so ok again. They did get plenty of new fans with DD, so they decided to smith the iron while its hot and came up with an album, whose quality kicks ass of many many others, but cannot satisfy a demanding bitch of a fan like me. Ive listened to DD and Character many times and they just make me sleepy, the songs all merge into one riff. Simplicity is ok (Enslaved have proven it beautifully on Below the Lights and especially on Isa), but you must know how to do it. I simply love the mixture of black and stoner riffs on Isa. I wish DT the best and it seems they finally got what they deserved long ago and I will remain their fan no matter what, but if the new album will sound like Character, I wont even bother listening to it twice.

 

[herneheim]

Havent quite decided on which one is the best. They ARE different, but that's a good thing in my book
A good sounding production helps some too, but that goes for all the recent DT albums.

 

[tunaman]

undocontrol - i believe you have very good points to make. and perhaps my definition of "technical" is different than yours. too me technical means you can write and play complicated riffs and execute them live. same thing with drumming bass or keyboard. and on character i believe it was specifically guitars and drums that became more technical. your version of "technical" which means to you being able to write more complex songs is what i call composing. being able to write comlex song arrangements.

marduk - i wouldn't say they wrote it for the fans. they had sucess with dd with a more agressive sound. they continued it with character. but dd and character are still two very different albums. to me character is my favorite. but i still love the other albums just as much. i hope that their next album dosen't sound like character, just like i hope they don't return to a previous sound. i like to see their music grow and change but always remian true to their goal of writing good music and not pleasing the masses or record companies. the only thing i'd for sure like to see is some clean guitar work and keeping it technical as well. but although i like the clean vocals on projector and haven i'd like to continue the agressive growl style stanne chose for character.

 

[Magrathean]

undocontrol - i believe you have very good points to make. and perhaps my definition of "technical" is different than yours. too me technical means you can write and play complicated riffs and execute them live. same thing with drumming bass or keyboard. and on character i believe it was specifically guitars and drums that became more technical. your version of "technical" which means to you being able to write more complex songs is what i call composing. being able to write comlex song arrangements.

In that case, i agree that they were able to write more "technical" (i.e. complicated, by your definition) guitar riffs on Character than on Damage done (but not more "technical" than on The gallery or TMI). But, to quote marduk, who put it better than i would have been able to, all the riffs seem to blend into one (into one uniform mass of heaviness with no real distinction between songs except at the end, i would add). For instance, on Haven there's something on each and every song that makes it totally different from every other song and makes it stand out from the rest of the album. Each song is a new offering. The same goes with TMI and, to a lesser degree, with Projector and The gallery. On Damage you can still find such elements if you look hard enough (Hours passed in exile, Freecard, Single part of two, Ex nihilo, Format C: for cortex, even Cathode ray sunshine and The enemy), but on Character it's almost completely lost. Towards the end we have Am i 1? and My negation, which strikingly stand out from the rest of the album and are both brilliant (the most brilliant songs on that album, i'd say), but the other nine songs do what marduk said about blending.

but although i like the clean vocals on projector and haven i'd like to continue the agressive growl style stanne chose for character.

Unless they can come up with something exceptionally brilliant and totally different from Character and Damage done, i'd say another growling-only album would be too much. I say Mikael's throat needs a break.

 

[tunaman]

In that case, i agree that they were able to write more "technical" (i.e. complicated, by your definition) guitar riffs on Character than on Damage done (but not more "technical" than on The gallery or TMI). But, to quote marduk, who put it better than i would have been able to, all the riffs seem to blend into one (into one uniform mass of heaviness with no real distinction between songs except at the end, i would add). For instance, on Haven there's something on each and every song that makes it totally different from every other song and makes it stand out from the rest of the album. Each song is a new offering. The same goes with TMI and, to a lesser degree, with Projector and The gallery. On Damage you can still find such elements if you look hard enough (Hours passed in exile, Freecard, Single part of two, Ex nihilo, Format C: for cortex, even Cathode ray sunshine and The enemy), but on Character it's almost completely lost. Towards the end we have Am i 1? and My negation, which strikingly stand out from the rest of the album and are both brilliant (the most brilliant songs on that album, i'd say), but the other nine songs do what marduk said about blending.

true, i actually agree with what you're saying, i too believe am i and my negation do stand out from character. it's true for most of the material it is a more uniform heavy sound, but i disagree that the songs arn't themselves different at all from one another. however i do see your point that they do run into eachother more than other dt albums. i also agree that damage done had a very great variety of songs. but on haven i'd have to disagree. not built too last, ego drama, rundown, emptier still, and the loss for words while being great songs that i can listen to over and over do sound closely releated like the material on character.

Unless they can come up with something exceptionally brilliant and totally different from Character and Damage done, i'd say another growling-only album would be too much. I say Mikael's throat needs a break.

if they did clean vocals and did it tastefully i wouldn't mind at all. i wouldn't say that they had sold out or did it for the fans. however i loved the agressive style from character and would like to see it carried over. now it depends on what the instrumental material sounds like on their next album. if they change their tempo and slow things down and do alot of clean guitar work or more emotional keyboard work then the stanne's style from character wouldn't work right because character was heavy and fast paced. all i can say is i love character and would like to see new material inspired by the best attributes of character but also would like to see something new and innovative. one thing i'd like to see is them experiment with tuning down lower and doing some slow rhythm based riffs with off chords. not necassarily like messhugah(whom i love) but something inspired by that type of metal. of course it's hard to put messhuagah in any category.

all things sayed the bottom line is we'd all like to see something fresh and inciteful from dt next time around. and i think we'll get it because they have proven their ability to do so.

and by the way, i think this is a great discussion. i know i'm new to the board but we should get some more specific discussions going some time. i'd consider myself a dt geek and love to disect specific things about their music.

 

[tunaman]

In that case, i agree that they were able to write more "technical" (i.e. complicated, by your definition) guitar riffs on Character than on Damage done (but not more "technical" than on The gallery or TMI). But, to quote marduk, who put it better than i would have been able to, all the riffs seem to blend into one (into one uniform mass of heaviness with no real distinction between songs except at the end, i would add). For instance, on Haven there's something on each and every song that makes it totally different from every other song and makes it stand out from the rest of the album. Each song is a new offering. The same goes with TMI and, to a lesser degree, with Projector and The gallery. On Damage you can still find such elements if you look hard enough (Hours passed in exile, Freecard, Single part of two, Ex nihilo, Format C: for cortex, even Cathode ray sunshine and The enemy), but on Character it's almost completely lost. Towards the end we have Am i 1? and My negation, which strikingly stand out from the rest of the album and are both brilliant (the most brilliant songs on that album, i'd say), but the other nine songs do what marduk said about blending.

Unless they can come up with something exceptionally brilliant and totally different from Character and Damage done, i'd say another growling-only album would be too much. I say Mikael's throat needs a break.

true, i actually agree with what you're saying, i too believe am i and my negation do stand out from character. it's true for most of the material it is a more uniform heavy sound, but i disagree that the songs arn't themselves different at all from one another. however i do see your point that they do run into eachother more than other dt albums. i also agree that damage done had a very great variety of songs. but on haven i'd have to disagree. not built too last, ego drama, rundown, emptier still, and the loss for words while being great songs that i can listen to over and over do sound closely releated like the material on character.

if they did clean vocals and did it tastefully i wouldn't mind at all. i wouldn't say that they had sold out or did it for the fans. however i loved the agressive style from character and would like to see it carried over. now it depends on what the instrumental material sounds like on their next album. if they change their tempo and slow things down and do alot of clean guitar work or more emotional keyboard work then the stanne's style from character wouldn't work right because character was heavy and fast paced. all i can say is i love character and would like to see new material inspired by the best attributes of character but also would like to see something new and innovative. one thing i'd like to see is them experiment with tuning down lower and doing some slow rhythm based riffs with off chords. not necassarily like messhugah(whom i love) but something inspired by that type of metal. of course it's hard to put messhuagah in any category.

all things sayed the bottom line is we'd all like to see something fresh and inciteful from dt next time around. and i think we'll get it because they have proven their ability to do so.

and by the way, i think this is a great discussion. i know i'm new to the board but we should get some more specific discussions going some time. i'd consider myself a dt geek and love to disect specific things about their music.

 

[Magrathean]

not built too last, ego drama, rundown, emptier still, and the loss for words while being great songs that i can listen to over and over do sound closely releated like the material on character.

What? Had you said that NBTL is more or less similar to The wonders, then i would have more or less agreed. But Ego drama is the "softest" song on Haven (not counting Emptier still, which, by the way, i believe, is the one song which stands out the most from Haven). Rundown is the exact opposite: the "hardest" song on Haven. I really don't see how you can say that Emptier still, Ego drama and Rundown sound the same to you, but i guess you're seeing something i'm not. Finally, At loss is more or less similar to My negation in a way, but i don't think it's similar to any other Haven song.

if they did clean vocals and did it tastefully i wouldn't mind at all. i wouldn't say that they had sold out or did it for the fans. however i loved the agressive style from character and would like to see it carried over. now it depends on what the instrumental material sounds like on their next album. if they change their tempo and slow things down and do alot of clean guitar work or more emotional keyboard work then the stanne's style from character wouldn't work right because character was heavy and fast paced.

I totally agree here.

and by the way, i think this is a great discussion. i know i'm new to the board but we should get some more specific discussions going some time. i'd consider myself a dt geek and love to disect specific things about their music.

We used to have these back when i joined (october 2005), and they probably had them before that. Lately, however, things seem to be a bit lazy/quiet here.

 

[Siren]

The electronics are way better in Haven than on Character

It's probably a matter of personal taste, but i strongly disagree with you. The sound of electronics on Haven sometimes puts me off, while i simply love them on Character.

 

[Magrathean]

It's probably a matter of personal taste

.

 

[Zephyrus]

I own Character and Damage Done.

Teh Gallery is on my wish-list.

 

[rammpeth]

not to start another ultimate song game but very few songs can match hours passed in exhile

 

[marduk1507]

It's probably a matter of personal taste, but i strongly disagree with you. The sound of electronics on Haven sometimes puts me off, while i simply love them on Character.

Thats probably the only really good thing about Character for me. Brandstrom is cool. But without him DD and Character would sound more or less like The Minds I - a step back for me.