Humans and their love of violence

[Izzat]

I enjoy violence. i liek watching fights and i like fighting. i watch horror movies as well as slashers and i make it my business to track down every abomination on the interbutts violent or otherwise. I dont find anything disgusting .
Its funny though. i used to never be able to watch anything violent or scary. i was afraid of the cat in toy story :|

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

It is one thing to enjoy violence, it is another to dispense it. Violence to the willing vis-a-vis a fight, or even a duel is perfectly reasonable, as there is no injury to the willing (Roman law) with the condition no third parties are harmed. I myself, once the transportation problem is solved, hope to spend many happy hours with the AK47 at the nearby range. There is nothing wrong with its enjoyment provided that it does not result in violence to the unwilling.

The aforementioned is a breach of contract and is inherently reprehensible, and is one of the circumstances in which violence is necessary for self-preservation.

 

[Möglich]

I enjoy violence. i liek watching fights and i like fighting. i watch horror movies as well as slashers and i make it my business to track down every abomination on the interbutts violent or otherwise. I dont find anything disgusting .
Its funny though. i used to never be able to watch anything violent or scary. i was afraid of the cat in toy story :|

I assume, however, that you would feel a little different about violence if you witnessed someone get an ice pick rammed under their fingernails in real life. Seeing simulated violence can be entertaining-- I enjoy it, too. However, real and senseless violence can be fairly disturbing. I wouldn't count you in the norm if you enjoyed it, but whether or not that is a natural disposition or a cultural construct is not solved.

This reminds me of my favorite quote from a book called Gates of Fire about the Battle of Thermopolae, "You mean your sword is fucking your enemies stomach and you don't have a hard dick? What kind of Spartan are you?" something along those lines...

 

[trappedinaconer]

Personally violence in general doesn't bother me. Pure cruelty on the other hand bothers me more than almost anything.I've seen Faces of Death 1 and 2.The video of the bank robbers being gunned down by the police after they shoot a hostage doesnt bother me.I honestly think they deserved to get lit up after killing an innocent woman.But things like the videos realeased by terrorists of hostages that are ussually no more than reporters being executed is somthing that should have never been allowed to happen in the first place,much less filmed. Call me cold hearted or evil for actually enjoying UFC or violent war movies like saving private ryan or black hawk down but violence is a part of life and i honestly believe that if we didnt have outlets like movies and video games things could honestly be just a little worse than they already are.....but thats just my opinion. And i also didnt do much more than skim the first 2 or 3 posts. This is just somthing i figured i would throw in after reading the last post above me.I can say that i actually enjoy the adreniline rush of a good fist fight. I try to avoid fighting for the most part but if an argument ever actually boils down to a real fight i cant say theres anything that compares to giving into the blind rage that comes over you from being forced into a confrantation you tried to avoid to the best of your ability.If your forced to violence like that i say enjoy it.

 

[derek]

It's an innate quality, in men especially.

Use paragraphing, though. It's much easier to digest.

 

[razoredge]

Its not a quality, nor is it innate, its a mental sickness, no different than that of the wife beater. The current cinema trend, that is acted out to some degree by "attitude" in real life is nothing more than mob mentality... same as which had people cheering in the streets for the bastille or to "burn the witches". Turn the tides in real life and you will find alot of pussys real quick, which is an indication of insecurity in ones physical and mental abilities.

 

[Einherjar86]

All humans are born with the capacity for violence, which is why it's innate. When kids are little they instinctively push and hit other kids if they are upset by something another child did. Parents have to scold their children to keep them from lashing out against other kids. We're socially conditioned against violence. This is not saying that it's a bad thing. Once human beings reach a certain age they recognize the logic and soundness in being diplomatic rather than violent.

 

[derek]

Its not a quality, nor is it innate, its a mental sickness, no different than that of the wife beater. The current cinema trend, that is acted out to some degree by "attitude" in real life is nothing more than mob mentality... same as which had people cheering in the streets for the bastille or to "burn the witches". Turn the tides in real life and you will find alot of pussys real quick, which is an indication of insecurity in ones physical and mental abilities.

The observations you make one modern folks seems to me to be the result of a societal influence. I still think we are innately violent. I find it hard to explain human history any other way.

 

[razoredge]

Yes we fight, some, but even as children it will make most of them cry, we all know the types that dont cry... right ? None the less this fighting and quarreling, shoving and pushing is a struggle for dominance or pecking order. It is far different than what we see on TV or the movies which as I recall was the basis of the origional post topic.

Humans waring past and in some cases still present was due to greed, typically of some wack job in charge of armies who convinced his hord it was for their betterment... when really it was for his gold and empowerment, like the rapest that gets off on his present and future control over his victim... once again a wack job.

 

[Einherjar86]

Yes we fight, some, but even as children it will make most of them cry, we all know the types that dont cry... right ? None the less this fighting and quarreling, shoving and pushing is a struggle for dominance or pecking order. It is far different than what we see on TV or the movies which as I recall was the basis of the origional post topic.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Children cry when they fight because the other one hurts them. And typically, when one child hurts another, the hurt child's next instinct is to strike back. In our childhood we understand this to be the primary method of solving quarrels. What do you mean by the types that don't cry? In a sense it is a struggle for dominance, you're right; but still, the child is utilizing violence to achieve his or her ends. Children basically want, and when they don't get what they want they act out, often in aggression towards others until they're scolded and taught otherwise. Yes, this is nowhere close to the violence and such that television and movies depict; but violence progresses in stages. All I'm saying is that humans are born with an innate capacity to commit violence, and if gone unchecked they will continue to do so. Fortunately, parental guidance and societal intervention condition us to understand that violence isn't the best means to an end. Furthermore, it is often children from an abusive household or of neglectful parents that wind up committing violent acts, or becoming what we would classify as "delinquents."

 

[razoredge]

Well see I dont considering hitting as violence, not the way kids go at it, nor in the way in which at one time parents would discipline their kids before the wanker laws went into effect and began destroying familys over discipline. I dont remember crying from pain but more the stress of being... stressed. Myself I only went through a small bit of it and it was with my best friend of all things, he was more like my brother... to this day even, and yes we were very upset after we went at it. There was a few fights in grade school and they were defence based, ala my much earlier posts regarding war to protect ones own land and kinfolk, still a far cry from sitting in the Coliseum to watch.

What did I mean ? BULLIES ! No doubt grew up to be great woman and children beaters.

Im wondering why you didnt address my points about wack job leaders instigating war in our glorious past. A very valid consideration from my perspective.

 

[Einherjar86]

I dont like violence or cruelity to any degree and have never watched any of that sick shit it disgusts me. However I do like stupid movies where ass holes get exterminated. Where Im going with this is I dont think people should confuse violence with survival instincts. We are all decendents of warriors and hunters but today we are not allowed by law to make a stand on our behalf. Yet little more than 60 years ago they had us storming the beaches of Normandy as expendable utilities or worse the unworthy cause that was Vietnam. Theres a big difference between going to war for a worthy cause and throwing people into the Coliseum for entertainment. So there is a instinctive nature for making a stand and the other a sickness, the two should not be confused.

Okay, so what you're specifically arguing against is violence as a means for sensual gratification. I don't believe in it either; but every human has the capacity to commit violence. I believe that both of your forms of violence (making a stand and "the sickness") are instinctual. However, that doesn't mean I necessarily think that "the sickness" is right. I believe that humans should be conditioned against violence, and later in life led to understand why diplomacy is a better route than violence in solving problems (sometimes).

I have a story to cite:
As a child, my parents let me read books that were probably a bit above my level of maturity. They let me watch R-rated films at a young age, and the book I'm about to refer to was actually part of one of the Aliens series adaptations. Anyway, within the book there was a death and the video of this person's death was sold on the black market. I asked my mother what the "black market" was, and told her the circumstance in the book. She told me that it is a business for illegal transactions where people can buy and sell videos of real deaths. I responded by saying, "awesome." She then proceeded to get very upset with me and scold me. She suggested that maybe she and my father should restrict what I watched and read, and then she gave me a lecture on what I had just said. I was in elementary school and didn't know any better; but after she talked to me about it I felt terrible. This incident always served as evidence for me that violence and a fascination with it is born innately in us, and that we have to condition ourselves and teach ourselves (and our children) how to think critically and logically about its consequences.

No because the people were throw into the Coliseum for reasons of gory entertainment, protecting ones property or beliefs is a far cry from entertainment. As entertainment it is a sickness and I have no doubt that those that find it great fun would cry like babies if it became their reality.

Well, now you're just taking those who find gratuitous violence thrilling and expressing a desire to force them to submit to their own obsessions. I think that's unfair. Of course a human being would cry in such a situation; but that's not really the topic of discussion, and the comment isn't really relevant at all here.

 

[razoredge]

I think its relevent because putting the shoe on the other foot is always the best way to discovery. I also learned later in life how to stop an aggressive mouthy person dead in their tracks. Its amazing how they react and even their verbal responces after you give them what they were dealing ten fold.

I'm well aware of violent tendancies but as I said they are defensive with me. I still seperate myself from those that kicked or microwaved cats. Im a different kind of wack job, Im a very passionate and compasionate person BUT there are people I could kill, this day, but its illegal, they do deserve to die and I have told many I could be found laughing like a lunatic over their quivering bodies, feeling fully justified. One of the reason I have never owned a gun, well that is actually both reason. I could never use one on an four legger but wouldnt hesitate on specific two leggers.

I have two stories, first was seeing my father shoot a woodchuck, it hurt me badly as I saw his life leave him. The other was sometime early teens seeing the movie "In Cold Blood" it horrified me. While not as grafic its still pretty extreme even today considering the circumstance and the fact that they were true.

So Ive always distanced myself from any of this kind of stuff though I've watched my share of action movies which are grafic as shit today... but fuck gore its total bullshit. I dont care to see real life events either, I still cringe at the Kennedy assination. There is three other events that happened while I was young, John, Martin Luther, and Bobby, I dont find that kind of shit amusing at all. All the boys dying in Vietnam. I also lost my mother at 12, she was 38. Nope nothing amusing about life leaving at all. So if these things are the way I was trained.... so fucking be it.

 

[derek]

Gentlemen, this discussion is losing its relevancy a little.

Does anyone moderate around here?

 

[razoredge]

fight the big fight and dont sweat the little things.

 

[Blowtus]

Derek, I fear that if I moderated the way you call for, there would be no discussion at all occurring in the forum. Yes, the forum seems to be degenerating a bit, but better that people have a chance to discuss and learn than every thread be locked / deleted. At the end of the day, it is a sub forum of a metal board, and if it is not being put to the high quality of use (as you and I might consider it) that it once was, then that is disappointing - but closing every thread that doesn't stand up to the old standard would seem no way of bringing such standard back, to me.

However, if you want your old mod powers back, just say so.

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

Methinks it is only through enforcement and exemplification of the old standards that they will be made the norm.

 

[Blowtus]

There are plenty of unused forums around, I don't see them suddenly filling up with intelligent and active philosopher types... I'd suggest there must be something more to creating such an environment than the absence of 'less worthy' posters...

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

I would wager the culprit is the public schooling...c'est la vie.

 

[trappedinaconer]

Its not a quality, nor is it innate, its a mental sickness, no different than that of the wife beater. The current cinema trend, that is acted out to some degree by "attitude" in real life is nothing more than mob mentality... same as which had people cheering in the streets for the bastille or to "burn the witches". Turn the tides in real life and you will find alot of pussys real quick, which is an indication of insecurity in ones physical and mental abilities.

So I'm mentally ill if the adrenaline rush from being a fight that I actually tried to avoid is a little exciting? Adrenaline is a natural chemical released into the human body in instances like that.Just because I would rather avoid the fight to begin with does not in any way make me a pussy. But if someone insists on throwing the first punch and not stopping after I restrain them or try to reason with them to cool off, I'm not gonna just stand there or run away.I'm going to fight to the best of my ability.Sorry if you think thats wrong, but in the end its just called defending yourself.


Which I also believe from your other posts, was something you cited as not being the same as violence for physical pleasure or any other sensory gratification. Just because I enjoy the adrenaline rush doesn't mean I would still fight if it was able to be stopped by negotiating with the other party.But that also doesn't mean that there aren't evil people out there that kill for pleasure, and that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be repercussions brought on people like that. I just think it was unfair for you to group me with psychos and other mentally ill people. Thats all.