Humor/Comedy

[speed]

Comedy and humor I believe to be one of, if not the most, revolutionary of forms. Each sharp barb cuts to the heart of the matter, has the power to make one laugh and reconsider their position, and is almost always the sign of a truly sane and moral person. Satire/comedy was at the heart of classical and renaissance philosophy. Who can forget the wit of Diogenes, Voltaire, Machiavelli, Montaigne? Most comedians/satirists see through the frivolities and corruption of the day; they are those who call out the politicians, celebrities, and the ridiculous goals and beliefs of common citizens.


Yet, I have noticed an alarming trend--and this is my experience, flawed Speedian perception here folks-- people (Americans) are becoming intolerant of any of the deep cutting humor that slices through human folly, corruption, institutions, beliefs; in essence, the heart of comedy and satire. Oh sure, frivolous comedy is still loved, but comedy with a meaning is very often held to be politically incorrect and not to spoken of, unless imbibed through late night T.V. shows. Thus, there is a appetite for such comedy, but only through very defined outlets.

Why has everyone become so afraid to offend, so PC? Why cant we joke around about our differences, re-examine our follies, laugh at ourselves anymore?

Here's some witty quotes from my favorite philosopher Diogenes of Sinope, a man who travelled around Athens with a lamp seeking another real man. A man who Alexander the Great thought was the only man he would have traded his life to be.



Discourse on virtue and they pass by in droves, whistle and dance the shimmy, and you've got an audience.
Diogenes of Sinope

In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes of Sinope

Modesty is the color of virtue.
Diogenes of Sinope

No man is hurt but by himself.
Diogenes of Sinope

Of what use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings?
Diogenes of Sinope

The art of being a slave is to rule one's master.
Diogenes of Sinope

There is only a finger's difference between a wise man and a fool.
Diogenes of Sinope

Why not whip the teacher when the pupil misbehaves?
Diogenes of Sinope

Wise leaders generally have wise counselors because it takes a wise person themselves to distinguish them.
Diogenes of Sinope

 

[Omnis_Sathanas]

I don't think contemporary comedy is relevant in the same sense that Aristophanes was during his day. Because now you have everything coming through the filter of the media. I can think of a few exceptions (like the movie Office Space which shows acutely how dumb modern jobs are) but most of it is just designed for cheap laughs by being ironic within a culturally defined framework; as in stupid and inoffensive things like making fun of 80s fashion and entertainment because it's no longer relevant. We can make fun of how arbitrary those forms of cultural expression were while not realizing that the things people take seriously now will be fodder in ten years.

 

[Nile577]

One of the loneliest experiences I ever had was sitting in a cinema watching 'Jackass 2,' surrounded by laughing Americans. It was the ultimate rabelaisian recognition that no amount of wit makes people laugh like putting a man's penis on screen and having it get bitten by a snake. I almost felt like crying listening to people around me - 'its in his fucking ass! oh my god! its in his ass!" Such zealous appreciation! I supposed you could philosophise it and argue that the humour of Jackass lies in exploring the absurdity of the body and celebrates 'bravery' in developing a pathology which allows the 'pain' mechanism of the body to be overcome. Perhaps such humour stems from the novel violation of a taboo which is passe to me.

The best comedy I can think of in recent times is Fawlty Towers (with John Cleese from Monty Python). I think it's brilliantly written and even stands up to classic work like Moliere. I think the best comedy has a streak of pathos and the brilliance of Fawlty Towers comes from the fact that it’s sometimes genuinely moving. There's one scene where Basil sits down and reflects, "'phwwwmph,' what was that? 'That was your life, mate.' 'Oh, do I get another?' 'No.'" - or, on a lighter note its rather funny when he sits down, after a morning's hard word, to enjoy some marmelade on toast and classical music and he gets about three bars worth of relaxation in before the reception bell rings and his wife tells him to turn off the racket (Basil: 'Racket???!!????? That's Brahm's! Brahm's third racket!)

 

[Nile577]

In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes of Sinope

That's hilarious.

Other favourite Fawlty Tower's quotes:

German Guest: Will you STOP talking about the war!
Basil Fawlty: Well you started it!
German Guest: We did NOT!
Basil Fawlty: Yes you did, you invaded Poland!


American Guest: This is the worst managed, most crummy, run-down hotel I've ever had the misfortune to stay in!
Major: NOOOOOO! I WON'T HAVE THAT! ........ there's a place in Eastbourne.

 

[speed]

One of the loneliest experiences I ever had was sitting in a cinema watching 'Jackass 2,' surrounded by laughing Americans. It was the ultimate rabelaisian recognition that no amount of wit makes people laugh like putting a man's penis on screen and having it get bitten by a snake. I almost felt like crying listening to people around me - 'its in his fucking ass! oh my god! its in his ass!" Such zealous appreciation! I supposed you could philosophise it and argue that the humour of Jackass lies in exploring the absurdity of the body and celebrates 'bravery' in developing a pathology which allows the 'pain' mechanism of the body to be overcome. Perhaps such humour stems from the novel violation of a taboo which is passe to me.

The best comedy I can think of in recent times is Fawlty Towers. I think it's brilliantly written and even stands up to classic work like Moliere. I think the best comedy has a streak of pathos and the brilliance of Fawlty Towers comes from the fact that it’s sometimes genuinely moving. There's one scene where Basil sits down and reflects, "'phwwwmph,' what was that? 'That was your life, mate.' 'Oh, do I get another?' 'No.'" - or, on a lighter note its rather funny when he sits down, after a morning's hard word, to enjoy some marmelade on toast and classical music and he gets about three bars worth of relaxation in before the reception bell rings and his wife tells him to turn off the racket (Basil: 'Racket???!!????? That's Brahm's! Brahm's third racket!)

Fawlty Towers was also rather un P.C. in some regards. There's a hilarious scene where Basil talks to the rather senile Major who tells him:

'I knew a girl once Fawlty!...Yes, I must have been keen on her. I took her to see INDIA!'
'Did you really Major?'
'Yes, they were second in to bat at the Oval. She kept calling them my pals. I said 'Noooooo I WONT HAVE THAT..............., it's the WEST Indians that are the my pals; these fellows are the wogs!'

In my view that's not racist humour and gently pokes fun at the Major’s mindset and the concept of racial slurs. I hear that it's likely to be cut from future airings, however.

Now the fault of Jackass 2 and most comedy thats flooding the market these days, is its Rabelasian humor without questioning life itself, philosophy, religion, etc., etc. In Gargantua an Pentragruel, Ulysses etc, books filled with bawdy bodily-function humor, are also teeming with a very serious and revolutionary underlying diatribe against society etc.

I have high hopes for this Borat however. From the clips Ive seen, it seems to be the perfect comment about the absurdity and beliefs of American society

 

[Norsemaiden]

Could it be that there is more satirical comedy in Britain than in the US? I haven't noticed there being any less of it here - yet. Perhaps it is related to George Bush's war on terror. I don't suppose dictatorships would allow as much satire as democracies would, certainly not against the government, and it seems that the US is heading in this direction. Does there seem to be a clampdown on satirising Bush's regime?

Is there more comedy aimed at ridiculing the Muslims - or Al Quaeda in particular?

 

[Nile577]

Now the fault of Jackass 2 and most comedy thats flooding the market these days, is its Rabelasian humor without questioning life itself, philosophy, religion, etc., etc. In Gargantua an Pentragruel, Ulysses etc, books filled with bawdy bodily-function humor, are also teeming with a very serious and revolutionary underlying diatribe against society etc.

Excellent point.

"Leopold Bloom ate with relish the inner organs of beasts and fowls. He liked thick giblet soup, nutty gizzards, a stuffed roast heart, liver slices fried with breadcrumbs, fried hencod's roe. Most of all he liked grilled mutton kidneys which gave to his palate a fine tang of scented urine.”

That makes me laugh every time I read it. The best character introduction in all of literature imho.

I haven't heard anything about Borat. Not even sure what it is.

 

[Nile577]

Could it be that there is more satirical comedy in Britain than in the US? I haven't noticed there being any less of it here - yet. Perhaps it is related to George Bush's war on terror. I don't suppose dictatorships would allow as much satire as democracies would, certainly not against the government, and it seems that the US is heading in this direction. Does there seem to be a clampdown on satirising Bush's regime?

Is there more comedy aimed at ridiculing the Muslims - or Al Quaeda in particular?

Hmm, I don't actually own a television so I might be wrong in saying this but wasn't Little Britain one of the last satirical English comedy shows and didn't it just get pulled? (I never saw it, so I can't comment on its quality). Meanwhile The Simpsons, South Park and Family Guy all seem to satirise modern society to some extent (albeit insufficiently for the taste of many here, I would imagine). There's some absolutely brutal satire here: [Nope. Removing the link from my own post. I'd not seen all of these parody cartoons and thought they were all satire on the corporate world but some are racist trash]

 

[speed]

Hmm, I don't actually own a television so I might be wrong in saying this but wasn't Little Britain one of the last satirical English comedy shows and didn't it just get pulled? (I never saw it, so I can't comment on its quality). Meanwhile The Simpsons, South Park and Family Guy all seem to satire modern society to some extent (albeit insufficiently so for the taste of many here, I would imagine).

Borat is this new movie by Sascha Cohen, in which he is a racist, anti-semitic Kazakistani who travels to the U.S. to find the love of his life--Pam Anderson--and in doing so, meets a variety of Americans who show just how idiotic, racist, ignorant, materialistic, etc, they really are. Sort of a cross between Gogol's Dead Souls, and Terry Southern's the Magic Christian for any other bibliophiles out there.

I think the Simpsons, Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasim are top notch satire on American mores. Seinfeld's a bit too jewish and topical, but even topical societal mores need to be mocked. But Simpsons i think is the best; the Colbert Report has been quite good at mocking American media since it started.

 

[derek]

Sometimes I wonder if you guys ever let up and just enjoy a good dick joke.



The greatest traditions of comedy find their roots in obscene jokes, people wearing large prosthetic cocks and generally acting like fools.

 

[Smoof]

Sometimes I wonder if you guys ever let up and just enjoy a good dick joke.



The greatest traditions of comedy find their roots in obscene jokes, people wearing large prosthetic cocks and generally acting like fools.

I'm completely with you here. Just because someone fancies themselves an intellectual and philosopher doesn't mean they can't enjoy stupid humor. I find that too many people get on their high horse as if it's below them, that they always need something intellectually stimulating, which is crap. Look at Shakespeare, obscene comedy for it's time and it's still pretty damn funny today.

I never saw Jackass 2, but I can't say that I wouldn't laugh. The pure stupidity of the acts is what makes it hilarious, in addition to them getting hurt. At the end of the day, I know they're nothing but cheap whores out to make a buck.

Also, to make a comment on the above list. Arrested Development was far superior to Curb your Enthusiasm.

 

[derek]

Well, Shakespeare takes his cues from the greatest comedians and tragedians of Antiquity.

Also, Curb Your Enthusiasm is miles better than Arrested Development.

 

[Smoof]

Also, Curb Your Enthusiasm is miles better than Arrested Development.

No way! You're nutty! I've tried to watch CYE and I didn't laugh once, it just felt so forced and poorly acted

 

[Norsemaiden]

Hmm, I don't actually own a television so I might be wrong in saying this but wasn't Little Britain one of the last satirical English comedy shows and didn't it just get pulled? (I never saw it, so I can't comment on its quality). Meanwhile The Simpsons, South Park and Family Guy all seem to satirise modern society to some extent (albeit insufficiently for the taste of many here, I would imagine). There's some absolutely brutal satire buried deep within the ANUS.com site - http://www.anus.com/etc/dh/

That link has some quite witty cartoons on it!

I wonder if there is any comic like Viz in America? I used to buy that for the satire in it like "Spoilt bastard" about a single child whose mother gives in to his every whim and yet is never given any gratitude and is verbally abused instead. Also there was Milly Tant, the communist lesbian and "The Liberal Parents" who wouldn't let their son do things such as play with toy guns or play cowboys and Indians, etc and kept trying to make him dress like a girl to identify with his femine side etc. I think it has gone more trivial and smutty since I last read it. But there are a few things in the "Top Tips" section which I will share with you guys whether you like it or not

AMERICANS: Wipe out the Iraqi insurgency by simply joining their side. With your "friendly fire" tactics, the war should be over in days.

SOLDIERS: Invest in a digital camera to avoid all that court martial tomfoolery after a trip to Trueprint.

Little Britain repeats are still being shown. That show was phenomenally successful. I enjoyed it mostly, but I hate the way children are allowed to watch it because it is very unsuitable for them. That is sickening.

We still have some funny satirical shows in a pseudo-quiz format - namely "Mock the Week" and "Have I Got News For You". I don't know if "Dead Ringers" is still going. (If any of you have never heard of it - there are some sketches on youtube). All of these shows are much funnier imo than any American sitcom. Maybe English humour is just so different to American humour though.

How terrible is it to prefer to watch Beavis and Butthead than Seinfeld?

Edit: I take that back - just watched some Beavis and Butthead and it was rubbish

 

[MasterOLightning]

Ha, there are some terrific Beavis and Butt-head episodes, many of which can be found on YouTube. The show is pretty hard on the education system, family life, work, etc. Mike Judge is a smart guy.

Bill Maher is pretty good as far as political humor goes.

I think John Stewart sucks though. His jokes always have two levels, where there will be a moderately intelligent satire followed by a dumbed down punchline. Pisses me off to no end. I never watch that show anymore. Colbert isn't subtle at all either. The Daily and Colbert shows are dumb humor behind an intelligent facade, where B&B's humor is actually clever behind a dumb facade.

 

[judas69]

I'm a fan of Seinfeld the show, all of Chris Farley's stuff and movies like Dumb and Dumber.

Not a fan of potty humour in the least and I certainly don't enjoy people slapping eachother around with dicks like derek.

 

[Xorv]

Comedy is a matter of opinion. Just like music. Not everyone is going to laugh at the same thing. NEVER. and thats fact.

 

[OldScratch]

I'm completely with you here. Just because someone fancies themselves an intellectual and philosopher doesn't mean they can't enjoy stupid humor. I find that too many people get on their high horse as if it's below them, that they always need something intellectually stimulating, which is crap. Look at Shakespeare, obscene comedy for it's time and it's still pretty damn funny today.

I never saw Jackass 2, but I can't say that I wouldn't laugh. The pure stupidity of the acts is what makes it hilarious, in addition to them getting hurt. At the end of the day, I know they're nothing but cheap whores out to make a buck.

Also, to make a comment on the above list. Arrested Development was far superior to Curb your Enthusiasm.

I can laugh at a variety of things, but I do find much of what passes for 'humor' today to be an insult to any halfway intelligent person. This now common Jackass-style scatological 'humor,' is simply not entertaining to me on any level - but to each their own I suppose. Still, aside from the off-putting, strangely homo-erotic nature of much of it, I just don't for the life of me see where it is funny - perhaps it is a generation gap, as I am apparently a fair bit older than many here(or on Jackass for that matter).
Generally speaking humor today is much more coarse and simplistic for the most part. The punchline, so to speak, is often delivered up on a plate - one must never be made think about it, it seems. Though the Simpsons and such are a cut above to be sure, it also follows that much of the imbedded satire is lost on many.
This is really just in keeping with the recent thread on the increasing superficiality of modern society. Even back 'when' comedies like "Animal House" (not to mention the Python films, etc.) and the like were clealry more intellectually sound than say an "American Pie" of today. Then again, maybe I'm just a bitter old nostalgia buff .

 

[ARC150]

I have a lot to say on this subject, but the hour is late, so I will provide this anecdotal "gem" for now (the retelling of which is inspired by speed's numerous Diogenes quotes):

At some point in time during my university years, I was asked to participate in a "comedy cafe" event - because the organizer of said event was my friend and needed people to fill the bill. I, in spite of my dislike for such conventions, agreed to the fifteen minute spot and assured the organizer that I would have a sufficient amount of material for the spot.

When it was my turn at the stage, I walked out.

-Naked
-Holding a candle-lantern
-With the phrase "Diogenes Was Here" written on my forehead

I stood stock-still for 15 minutes then shouted into the crowd
"Do you get it?"

No one laughed, if you can believe it....

 

[judas69]

WHAT!